Chasing the lands is stupid... What do you think?

[Erik Cortina]

Watch video. Let me know what you think.

 

[Poor Shot 65]

if measuring to the lands is not important then why do you do it when you first performed a seating test? why would you care ?

the logic doesn’t hold up for me. This is just my uneducated opinion.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

That was great! Simple and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

 

[vegas]

Interesting video and approach. I am assuming the discussion on this will be lively. I'll probably watch that again at some point. Thanks.

 

[Sandstorm]

Thanks Erik...much appreciated.
I will give it a test drive.
John

 

[Oleg S]

Thank you very much Sir!
Oleg

 

[group therapy]

@Dusty Stevens whatcha think big dawg

 

[TC]

Just buy an EC Tuner and you never need to find the lands

 

[argh]

So..... where do we start


You measure the distance to the lands (or the jam point as you describe), then you go back 20 thou to start load development......
So you DO actually know where your lands are, despite your comments that you keep spouting throughout your video that "i have no idea where my lands are"

Just because you dont write the numbers down, doesnt mean you havent found the lands, then adjusted seating depth in load development, like most of us do do.

Then, as your barrel wears, you test seating your projectiles longer to see if it makes a difference. WELL, isn't that what most of us would call "chasing the lands"?

BTW. I proudly seat my projectiles into the lands when load testing shows it is beneficial to accuracy, and, i also proudly neck size.

 

[jimmymac]

Using your described "jamming" method, can totally understand why you have no consistency in actual "touch" measurements, or why you have no clue to where your lands contact really is (or how much your throat is actually eroding).

When experienced with the fallowing method, repeatable and exact measurements are easily obtained:

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That method is awesome, but I think the whole point Erik is making is that he doesn't care where touch is. He is working from jam at a given neck tension and using that dimension as his reference point. His method of finding jam is no different than what is described by Tony Boyer, although Tony won't back away .020" from jam to start. I've been to one of the Jack Neary seminars, and he also finds jam in that fashion as do many shooters. Point being, it's just a reference dimension to use as a starting point to work with as you make CBTO seating adjustments deeper in to the case until the ideal seating depth is located where the gun shoots consistently well.

An interesting point about the Neary seminar. Once he's satisfied with a seating depth that is working, he does exactly as Erik describes if the gun stops working due to wear from increasing round count. He will go a couple or three thousandths longer on seating to get back in the game.

I use both methods. I find touch and I also record jam. It gives me hard numbers to start with that allow me to know a seating depth range from jam to jump with a given bullet. It's only a snapshot in time and only used as a reference.

Good video Erik. There is more than one way to do this stuff. Thanks.

 

[Richard Coody]

Well I agree with him about touch doesn't matter. All you are really looking for is a datum to start seating depth test from. I have always used a hard jam. Find it with my stoney point

It's easy to find and repeatable. Only difference is I start load development with that hard jam. I understand why in his discipline he would want to avoid jam. In non benchrest rifles/hunting rifles I do to. Of course most of the time with these you are limited to mag length.

Of course as in all shooting/reloading tecniques its what works for you. Lots of ways to skin this cat.

 

[dolek]

Looks like another anti neck sizing video to me . Should have known when I saw "Stupid" in the title . Too much drama for me .

 

[Richard Coody]

Looks like another anti neck sizing video to me . Should have known when I saw "Stupid" in the title . Too much drama for me .

Nothing in the video about neck sizing

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I typically start at what I call full jam. That being, as far into the lands as my neck will allow. That leaves only one direction to work. That said, I can make small adjustments or, depending on application, I may just back it out enough to find the point where the bullet wont stick and dump powder, and work from there.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Looks like another anti neck sizing video to me . Should have known when I saw "Stupid" in the title . Too much drama for me .

Drama or Entertainment? Depends on which side of the bed you got up on.

 

[Metal God]

I can tell you in my experience that jump , touch or jam matters . Jump and jam seem to give consistent results as far as pressures and SD/ES . However touching resulted ( for me ) very inconsistent velocities and SD/ES .

I'm listening to the video as I write this and I've not heard the OP talk about case headspace yet . If you're an advanced reloader then your sized base to datum measurement is likely consistent . However if you're not very good at sizing , your case headspace ( base to datum ) measurement can very as much as .005+ which means your distance to lands can very that same amount from cartridge to cartridge when fired .

At the end of the video the OP straight out suggest chasing the lands if it works for you , DUH . I think this video is for less advanced reloaders to help them understand your groups matter more then what your thoughts may be . I don't know anyone that cases the lands just to chase the lands . You only adjust your seating depth if your groups start to open up . Maybe it's just me but why would you adjust something if your rifle is shooting well ?

What about the claim of having a rifle with 3k rounds through it and only needing to adjust .006 . Not saying that's not true or possible . My question would be did he use the same lot powder for that entire 3k rounds as well as primer lot ? As we know the seating adjustment is really playing with the pressure curve , barrel time and harmonics correct . Changing powder lots can effect these things so how does the OP compensate for those variances over a 3k round count barrel and know the seating depth was the difference and not the powder lot ?

 

[338 dude]

Like as mentioned earlier he finds the lands and works back but he is simply doing this by trial and error and not recording the actual number although he has to record the number to begin with I think he’s just looking for some attention

 

[JFrank]

I typically start at what I call full jam. That being, as far into the lands as my neck will allow. That leaves only one direction to work. That said, I can make small adjustments or, depending on application, I may just back it out enough to find the point where the bullet wont stick and dump powder, and work from there.

Agreed’ I know it ( letting the bolt seat the bullet ) as soft seating.
I see nothing wrong with his video or approach of finding the window and staying in tune, he does take the long way around the barn explaining though.
J
I’ll wager his inbox is full from at least one member.

 

[js2013]

Good video, but he still "chases the lands" for best accuracy when required (his definition of "chasing the lands" differs from others). Very practical explanation IMO.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I like to know both touch and jam. Lots of methods out there that guys use successfully. But if a customer calls me complaining about accuracy and he does not know where the bullet is seated in relation to the lands, it will be a very short conversation! LOL