Chargemaster 1500

[Charlie-NY]

I've been using a ChargeMaster 1500 scale/dispenser for many years. A few years ago I had it rebuilt. I always figured that it was working as expected. Not too long ago, I eliminated the 110v power and went to a dedicated 12v battery source, hoping to increase consistency. I let the unit warm up for 15min or more before going through the calibration sequence. I periodically re-calibrate the unit while reloading.

Now that I periodically re-calibrate during a single reloading session, I noticed that every time that I re-calibrate and then replace the pan, I get a different weight for the pan. The variance is significant depending upon how long the scale is running. I do zero the scale once the pan is in place but the fact that the pan weighs differently everyn time is concerning.

Has anyone else noticed this? What are your thoughts.

 

[RegionRat]

Charlie, how much are we discussing when we say the pan tare weight doesn't repeat?

Have you tracked the humidity and temperature in the workshop? Humidity and static are related, and temp swings affect strain gage load cells.

 

[6Creed73]

I'm not sure switching to battery power is the way to go. Electronic scales need consistent, clean power and a battery will not provide that as well as the 110v. I'd consider going back to 110v but get a line conditioner to plug it into.

I've never had a great experience using battery power for electronic scales and reserve that for if I'm loading at the range only.

 

[Straightshooter1]

In my case, when I use my CM-1500, I use a battery and it worked very well where it kept the zero more stable (much less drifting).

Talentcell Rechargeable 12V 6000mAh/5V 12000mAh DC Output Lithium ion Battery Pack​

 

[gravelyctry]

I had lots of similar issues with my charge master and tried static charge mats, line conditioners (ferrites?), battery power and a few other things. The most improvement I made was by replacing all the fluorescent bulbs with LEDs.

But it still wasn’t as good as I wanted. Neil

 

[6Creed73]

In my case, when I use my CM-1500, I use a battery and it worked very well where it kept the zero more stable (much less drifting).

Talentcell Rechargeable 12V 6000mAh/5V 12000mAh DC Output Lithium ion Battery Pack​

View attachment 1471657

That's surprising to me, but glad it works well for you. I use a similar battery, and tried a few different ones, when I take a scale to the range...but it just never works as well as line power plugged into a conditioner.

And as mentioned in another comment, I turn off the fluorescent overhead lights.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'm not sure switching to battery power is the way to go. Electronic scales need consistent, clean power and a battery will not provide that as well as the 110v. I'd consider going back to 110v but get a line conditioner to plug it into.

I've never had a great experience using battery power for electronic scales and reserve that for if I'm loading at the range only.

This is exactly opposite. You can easily test it for yourself with a cheap multimeter. You might get relatively close with a fairly expensive regulated wall wart or line conditioner but most are cheap, unregulated ones, including the one that comes with the cm1500. The cm1500 is designed to operate on 9-16 volts because of this. The input voltage to the unit is all over the place using the wall wart. Just test the voltage coming into your house and the voltage from a 12 volt battery. Unless there is something wrong with your battery, Id bet it is way more constant than the wall outlet. This is why there are line conditioners at all and totally without regard for power surges, like lightening or heavy appliances kicking on or off.

Your experiences outdoors could easily be related to other things, outdoor related.

 

[6Creed73]

This is exactly opposite. You can easily test it for yourself with a cheap multimeter. You might get relatively close with a fairly expensive regulated wall wart or line conditioner but most are cheap, unregulated ones, including the one that comes with the cm1500. The cm1500 is designed to operate on 9-16 volts because of this. The input voltage to the unit is all over the place using the wall wart. Just test the voltage coming into your house and the voltage from a 12 volt battery. Unless there is something wrong with your battery, Id bet it is way more constant than the wall outlet. This is why there are line conditioners at all and totally without regard for power surges, like lightening or heavy appliances kicking on or off.

Your experiences outdoors could easily be related to other things, outdoor related.

You may be right, I'm just relaying my experience. I get terrible drift running from a battery pack and nearly no drift with line power and a conditioner. I've tried using the battery packs inside, with the same result...its not due to outdoor related conditions.

When I have some time I'll do the multimeter test.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

You may be right, I'm just relaying my experience. I get terrible drift running from a battery pack and nearly no drift with line power and a conditioner. I've tried using the battery packs inside, with the same result...its not due to outdoor related conditions.

When I have some time I'll do the multimeter test.

The real test is with an inductive meter to watch it go up and down with varying amounts of draw. Before there were these nice little 12c volt power supplies that almost fit in your pocket, I made kits for the cm1500 with sla 12 v batteries. I discussed it a fair bit with rcbs techs. They acknowledged the dc battery would be best but yet they did say that they could not warranty the unit if used with anything other than the wall wart they supply with it, fwiw. I can understand that and if polarity was accidentally reversed, it's kill the unit before you can blink. Lol!

 

[6Creed73]

The real test is with an inductive meter to watch it go up and down with varying amounts of draw. Before there were these nice little 12c volt power supplies that almost fit in your pocket, I made kits for the cm1500 with sla 12 v batteries. I discussed it a fair bit with rcbs techs. They acknowledged the dc battery would be best but yet they did say that they could not warranty the unit if used with anything other than the wall wart they supply with it, fwiw. I can understand that and if polarity was accidentally reversed, it's kill the unit before you can blink. Lol!

Do you have a particular battery you prefer? When I run off of battery power, I use a battery pack meant for jump starting a car...not sure if it makes a difference what type of battery is used.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Do you have a particular battery you prefer? When I run off of battery power, I use a battery pack meant for jump starting a car...not sure if it makes a difference what type of battery is used.

I now use the Talentcell mentioned above. Ime, it works fine.

 

[jpjulian]

I fixed my Chargemaster by unplugging it and putting it on a shelf in the back of my reloading room. AT V4/A&D Fx120i in its' place works very well indeed. I spoke with Don Legg at RCBS and he said he'd fix it under warranty if I sent it in to him. Getting the V4 seemed less of a hassle.

 

[Rsadams]

I recently went to the chargemaster link and like it I pretty much am only using it for 10mm using blue dot.... The one thing I have figured out is if you wipe it down with a dryer sheet before using it helps a ton to eliminate that drift.... You may be bringing static electricity to the unit by simply walking around and then touching it.... I have carpet in my reloading room and wearing any kind of tennis or rubber bottom shoe is a serious no go.... I normally reload barefoot since I am in the house....

I have a nylon dust cover for it and it will get static on the machine so bad that the other day just moving the calibration weight close to the pan would cause it to move the scale once I noticed that I started wiping all my electronics down before using....Here in central Texas the ac runs and at night we turn it down which will cause static electricity.... I am loading close to max 10mm so I weigh the charge that comes off the chargemaster on another digital scale to double check and since I started watching for static it's made electronic scales alot more friendly , try it , don't cost anything and you already have the dryer sheets... I also run a battery backup line conditioner and it catches all kinds of power problems it tells me what the powers like coming out of the wall etc... But it wasn't free and it could be used for other things like running my wifi for hours if the power dumps...

 

[Charlie-NY]

Charlie, how much are we discussing when we say the pan tare weight doesn't repeat?

Have you tracked the humidity and temperature in the workshop? Humidity and static are related, and temp swings affect strain gage load cells.

When I first calibrate the unit I normally get a pan weight of 163.4-163.5gn which seems like a tight range. However, subsequent calibrations will go from 163.2 down to 162.8. That seems to be too much deviation for me to rely on the output when weighing powder. My reloading bench is in a basement that has a dehumidifier running most of the summer to avoid high humidity. It is normally about 50%-58% according to my gauges. The humidifier is always turned off when I'm actually using the scale.

 

[Charlie-NY]

In my case, when I use my CM-1500, I use a battery and it worked very well where it kept the zero more stable (much less drifting).

Talentcell Rechargeable 12V 6000mAh/5V 12000mAh DC Output Lithium ion Battery Pack​

View attachment 1471657

That is the exact battery that I'm using. It was recommended here by some of our members

 

[Charlie-NY]

I had lots of similar issues with my charge master and tried static charge mats, line conditioners (ferrites?), battery power and a few other things. The most improvement I made was by replacing all the fluorescent bulbs with LEDs.

But it still wasn’t as good as I wanted. Neil

I should have mentioned it but, all of the lighting in my basement has been upgraded to LED.

 

[Charlie-NY]

One of the reasons that I was interested in avoiding the 110v outlet was because there is a refrigerator plugged into the same outlet as the CM1500. I assumed that if the compressor went into an "on" cycle that it could cause a voltage drop to the scale without me realizing it.

Here's an interesting question. The CM 1500 is now run off the mentioned battery pack BUT it still sits within one foot of the refrigerator. Could this possibly be causing the deviation that I'm seeing?

 

[Doom]

@Charlie-NY,
I doubt that the refrigerator or the power supply is the issue. When you recalibrate does the unit show 100gram when completed? If you remove one calibration weight does it read 50? Does the zero indicator come on when the weight is removed?

To check the scale once recalibrated, weigh one of the calibration weights 10 times, removing it and reweighing it waiting 10 seconds after removing and replacing the weight and 10 seconds before reading the weight.

 

[Charlie-NY]

@Charlie-NY,
I doubt that the refrigerator or the power supply is the issue. When you recalibrate does the unit show 100gram when completed? If you remove one calibration weight does it read 50? Does the zero indicator come on when the weight is removed?

To check the scale once recalibrated, weigh one of the calibration weights 10 times, removing it and reweighing it waiting 10 seconds after removing and replacing the weight and 10 seconds before reading the weight.

Most of the time the unit will go to zero when the 100gm weight is removed. On the few occasions when it didn't, I started the recalibration over.

I'll have to try your suggestion of placing and removing one of the weights. Thanks for the input.

 

[RegionRat]

Charlie, I agree that is too much variation, especially if there is normal humidity in the shop and a steady temperature, I also assume no or low drafts.

I would add the concept of tracking the zero (null) and the half and full scale value of the cal weights (gain) as in the advice above. Null and Gain drift is different than noise, but some of the causes can overlap.

I would just play with the cal wights for a few sessions. I would wait about 15 minutes and just check those cal weights again. Then, I would start running the dispenser and just dump the powder back in using the typical tempo you use when loading, then check those cal weights again. (Running the motors is another source of potential trouble that can influence the instrument electronics of the scale.)

If you still see the trouble in your shop, you have nothing to loose (except your time) by trying a completely different part of the house just to see what if anything changes.

Hate to say it, but sometimes trouble is due to external issues that we can eliminate, but there are still instances of bad units. It is a shame but it happens statistically.