Awesome, thanks.
Would you mind sharing coals and velocities with some of the heavier bullets?
Chamber spec for heavy bullets in a .223 - 600 yard plinker project.
Would you mind sharing coals and velocities with some of the heavier bullets?
Got it. That increases the cost of the Howa option quite a bit versus setting up my RPR using a RAP as a donor.
urbanrifleman
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PREFIT NUT BARREL (REM 700, SAVAGE SM/LG, TIKKA T3, KELBY, BAT, CURTIS AXIOM, BERGARA, RUGER AMERICAN, WIN M70))
Precision Rifle Shooting Accessories
Order a 223 ISSF in 7 or 8 twist for your Savage. If you want to shoot easy just shoot the 75 ELDM or 80 eldm.
I also have the RPR replacement barrel.
Jeff Porter
Gold $$ Contributor
The heavies are all single load, longer than mag length. With the long barrel and a +2 gas system I am pushing them 2800-2900 range. The 88’s are hot… brass killing hot at 2850 to be used at 1000.
If you want a gas gun fed from a magazine to share with the new shooters … I use a 20” White Oak upper with Shilen ratchet 1:7 for service rifle. 77 SMK or Lapua 77 Scenar will shoot .5 moa and work well out to 600.
It's the cheap button if I use this as an excuse to buy myself a Ruger American in 300 BLK. I don't have a .223-base Ruger bolt. Otherwise, the cheap button is to find myself a pile of 6ARC brass and just use what I've already got.
The only Savage I've got at the moment is an old 110 LA stagger-feed blind mag with a .473 bolt head (possibly large firing pin). I'm definitely open to it if it's feasible to find a feeding solution that will work and an appropriate bolt head, because that particular rifle needs a new barrel.PREFIT NUT BARREL (REM 700, SAVAGE SM/LG, TIKKA T3, KELBY, BAT, CURTIS AXIOM, BERGARA, RUGER AMERICAN, WIN M70))
Precision Rifle Shooting Accessoriestheurbanriflemanstore.com
Order a 223 ISSF in 7 or 8 twist for your Savage. If you want to shoot easy just shoot the 75 ELDM or 80 eldm.
I also have the RPR replacement barrel.
Looking at that page though, I think the Ruger American tenon thread would work. I'd be curious to see if I could use AR Handguard-compatible barrel nuts and one of the quick-release handguards, like the Strike Industries Gridlok, to make it a switch-barrel setup.
Seeing 22BR listed on your page has gotten my caliber-creep juices flowing... But I think it would be overkill for what I need, and the brass and dies would add significant cost.
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A little history-
Similar to you, I was looking for a low cost 223 solution. I had a 1:12 twist Remington 700 Varmint model that was a tackdriver and wanted something with a slower twist so that I could shoot the heavy, high BC bullets.
I started with a Mossberg Predator with a 1:9 twist. It would shoot between .5 and .7 MOA, depending on the bullet. Great for banging steel out to 600 with 69 grain bullets. The AR style mags are short so I was limited to the lower BC bullets, bolt was kinda sloppy, but the stock and trigger were good.
Next up was the Ruger and I was very disappointed. The action was decent, trigger tuned down to about 3 lbs, but the stock felt like a flimsy Tupperware bowl. A friend and I messed with loads, etc and just couldn't get it to shoot all that well. Maybe bad luck but I talked to another guy recently who had similar issues. I think it is the luck of the draw and most people don't expect a $500 rifle to shoot all that well.
I finally did a remage build with a setup similar to what urbanrifleman sells and found it to be the best all around solution. It cost a bit more but I could build it exactly the way that I wanted. Remington action, 1:7 stainless match barrel, tuned Remington trigger at 2.5 lbs, KRG stock that takes an AICS pattern mag that can take a long 223 cartridge.
Since then I purchased a Remington 783 when there was a big rebate and you could get them for $300. It's a 1:9 twist but will shoot the 70 RDF well under MOA, and I use it as a lighter option to the remage build. Much nicer gun all around compared to the Ruger.
Understood, thank you very much for the additional info.
I'm thinking that if I go the Ruger route, I'd have urbanrifleman turn me a .223 Wylde barrel to put on my RPR, and I'd get the RAR in 300 BLK (instead of .223) for the bolt and to keep as a fun suppressor host.
urbanrifleman
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223 RPR is a good idea.
How much do they tend to go for? From a quick search on GB, it seems like they're quite a bit more than I was hoping to spend on this project.
I can get a Ruger American in a Magpul Hunter stock for under $650, or drop the bolt and barrel into my RPR for under $500. Alternatively, I could pick up a Savage Axis precision in an Oryx chassis for under $800, or do a Savage with a barrel from urbanrifleman for about $700.
I've also realized that I don't need the 200 and 600 yard capabilities to both be in the same rifle. Since 80% of my shooting will be at 200, I could just get a 20" .223 Wylde AR barrel and build myself an inexpensive upper to go on an existing lower. I may even have a 1:9 HBAR (of unknown quality) lurking in the corner of my closet... I could just bring my existing 20" or 24" 6 ARC uppers when I'm committed to shooting from the 600 yd line. I think a good brass-catcher would go a long way to motivating me to take the AR path.
My issue is that I almost have more fun buying sh*t and setting up rigs than I do actually shooting...
Lawndart
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I’m the worst…
I took a cheap Savage donor (12FV) and dropped it in a GRS stock with Accurate0mag bottom metal for AI mags. The barrel is a Criterion 223 Match (.090 free bore). Throat is too short of “optimal” chambering of 88/90, but it’s done 195-6X at 600y with 88 ELDs and I’m seeing speeds of nearly 2700fps with that load in a 26” barrel.
I think a cheap 12FV donor is a good way to go, My build cost:
$320 for new 12FV
$350 for barrel
$550 for stock
$150 for bottom metal.
It won’t run with a 223 FTR rig, but it’s close enough for the cost and the main limitation is the fact that I’m the shooter. In better hands, it could easily be a consistent 190+ rig instead of my mid-180s avg on an F class face at 600.
Find a used Savage donor, rebarrel with a prefit set up for the match bullets (Urbanrifleman’s ISSF barrel is a great choice) and Bob’s your uncle. No better bang for the buck to 600y can be had IMO.
I think a cheap 12FV donor is a good way to go, My build cost:
$320 for new 12FV
$350 for barrel
$550 for stock
$150 for bottom metal.
It won’t run with a 223 FTR rig, but it’s close enough for the cost and the main limitation is the fact that I’m the shooter. In better hands, it could easily be a consistent 190+ rig instead of my mid-180s avg on an F class face at 600.
Find a used Savage donor, rebarrel with a prefit set up for the match bullets (Urbanrifleman’s ISSF barrel is a great choice) and Bob’s your uncle. No better bang for the buck to 600y can be had IMO.
And now I offer a counterpoint to my own post:
Build a full custom in 223 on whatever setup you want. The real cost of a premium custom action is free. They will keep their value and essentially never wear out if you care for them.
Then you can choose exactly the stock you want (700 footprint or better), and you aren’t limited to the Savage trigger.
The real cost of shooting is the consumables. Bullets, powder, barrels, etc. The custom action and stock and such are only expensive ONCE.
Will you shoot 2000 rounds through the rifle in 20 years? Congratulations, you just paid for a $1000 chassis. Another 2500 rounds? You bought a nice action.
Barrels are consumable like everything else.
So while I’ve done the donor savage option and it’s pretty cost effective, I’m of the opinion now that if at all possible, buy the action, trigger, and chassis or stock that you want, regardless of what it costs, because you basically get to use it for free decades if you want. They don’t wear out or break.
What’s more, the joy of shooting a nice custom action is something you buy once but enjoy thousands of times— every cycle of the bolt, every pull of the trigger is return on a one-time investment.
So the advice I would give to my younger self just getting started is:
1) go cheap the first time so you know what you want to do differently next time and you’ll appreciate the difference
2) Never go cheap a second time. Buy whatever action, stock, trigger AND SCOPE you think you’ll ever dream of. Because they are basically forever things that you will back every time you shoot.
Thanks for those replies!
If I go the Savage route, I think I'd get either a Desert Tactical ($600) or a Magpul Hunter ($700) and use the stock and bottom metal it comes with. I'd use the barrel (.308 or 6.5 CM) to complete an old blind mag staggerfeed LA rifle I bought as a cheap donor and never got a barrel for. If I credit myself $175 for the barrel, then the Tactical route would cost about $700, and the Magpul would be $800.
While I definitely have an appreciation for really nicely-made things, I also have an appreciation for "good'nuff" stuff that offers high value and gets the job done. The military desensitized me to dinging and scratching my rifles in the field, so I'm the kind of guy that can't have nice things. Fortunately, I'm not anywhere near a good enough shot or a careful enough reloader that a decently-built rifle with a good barrel would be the limiting factor. I don't really compete in either discipline aside from the occasional match, but I'd say I'm more of a PRS-type guy, than an F-Class guy.
One question about the ISSF chamber- would it still shoot light 55-62gr bullets reasonably well, or would I be better off with a Wylde chamber and be limited to the 75gr ELDM, which I think is still adequate for my maximum distance of 600 yd? Keep in mind that I won't shoot matches with this rifle. I'll use my 6CM RPR or 24" 6ARC AR for matches, depending on the range. This will mostly be a range toy that I can shoot all I want (and hopefully get better at wind reading), and let my friends shoot all they want.
Lawndart
If I go the Savage route, I think I'd get either a Desert Tactical ($600) or a Magpul Hunter ($700) and use the stock and bottom metal it comes with. I'd use the barrel (.308 or 6.5 CM) to complete an old blind mag staggerfeed LA rifle I bought as a cheap donor and never got a barrel for. If I credit myself $175 for the barrel, then the Tactical route would cost about $700, and the Magpul would be $800.
While I definitely have an appreciation for really nicely-made things, I also have an appreciation for "good'nuff" stuff that offers high value and gets the job done. The military desensitized me to dinging and scratching my rifles in the field, so I'm the kind of guy that can't have nice things. Fortunately, I'm not anywhere near a good enough shot or a careful enough reloader that a decently-built rifle with a good barrel would be the limiting factor. I don't really compete in either discipline aside from the occasional match, but I'd say I'm more of a PRS-type guy, than an F-Class guy.
One question about the ISSF chamber- would it still shoot light 55-62gr bullets reasonably well, or would I be better off with a Wylde chamber and be limited to the 75gr ELDM, which I think is still adequate for my maximum distance of 600 yd? Keep in mind that I won't shoot matches with this rifle. I'll use my 6CM RPR or 24" 6ARC AR for matches, depending on the range. This will mostly be a range toy that I can shoot all I want (and hopefully get better at wind reading), and let my friends shoot all they want.
Lawndart
ISSF reamer with something like a 53vmax stretched out to 2.390area give or take will be accurate and smoke some decent speed. I have a 1-7 twist Urbanrifleman barrel with this reamer. 53-80 grain bullets.
I also have 1 of Urbanrifleman's barrels in the Wylde 1-8 twist. Ones on a Savage and the other is on a Nucleus.
I also have 1 of Urbanrifleman's barrels in the Wylde 1-8 twist. Ones on a Savage and the other is on a Nucleus.
Cool, thanks! The ISSF chamber sounds pretty versatile.
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