Cci 450 issues
- Thread starter JB10
- Start date
might be thick cups and a light firing pin spring. I never had a snap with Federal. Doug
If you are popping primers and getting head swipes it is NOT the primers it is your load expanding the case head. CCI 41 is not exactly the same as CCI450.I'm having horrible problems with the CCI #41s which are the same primer. They're popping out, and swiping case heads badly in .223/5.56mm known loads.... even on fairly reduced versions of the same load.
I tried switching to Ball Powder (TAC) to get a slower burn rate and a ball powder, and even at modest velocity, the heads swipe a little, and a few will show the primer backing out of the brass.
These primers are used for mixed brass bulk target ammo, so the massive SDs aren't a deal breaker, but jamming up my fire control group with popped primers sucks.
I've spent way too many weeks trying to get an acceptable load for these awful primers. I've never had a component give me so much trouble.
First time out was about 25 degrees warmer and had no issues.
Could be. Im going to check shoulder bump tonight. Also those 2 in the picture were tried 5 times i think. They were not that deep cratered untill after 4th try. Firts attempt looked lile a normal strike.
I know these are not jammed loads but not sure how much of a jump. I dont have a tap to make a modified case but a friend does. Ill get one made. When my gunsmith fitted the barrel he asked for sized brass and a bullet seated to 2.260 so thats what ive been loading the rounds to. Ill give a case to my friend andd have him thread it.
Most of the stuff I currently shoot uses CCI450 primers, I go through 5 to 6 thousand a year in multiple rifles in very cold to very hot weather. A couple of years ago I had a ARC Nucleus action with 350 rounds through it go from 100% ignition to 0% like you flipped a switch.
The striker spring was replaced and it has been 100% for the next 1800 rounds.
The striker spring was replaced and it has been 100% for the next 1800 rounds.
^^This^^ I've never, ever had a primer fail to ignite in the tens of thousands of rounds that I have loaded over the years ( hope I don't jinx myself). I have shot 30+ year old primers and still no issue UNTIL years ago- I saw an article (on this site) about primer seating depth and accuracy. So, I took my trusty 6br to the range and started to experiment with primer seating depth. Normally, I go full crush and bottom out my priming tool. For the test, I started backing off in .002 thou increments and at .006 to .008 from the bottom, guess what? Click- no bang. every second or third one. Accuracy went out the window too so I went back to fully seating and I've never looked back. It wasn't for me. Just my .02 cents.
Dan
The primers are the only variable. I've spent no less than 10 range sessions testing these things. Yes.. obviously the output charge is the cause of the swiping. But the primers are massively altering the burn rate on 4 different powders that I have tested. H322, Varget, TAC, and IMR 3031
And Insiders at CCI have stated specifically that the 450s and the 41s are the exact same primer. I've read it here before, and a guy on another forum PM'd me that his girlfriend actually works on that very production line.
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
I would deduce, from the photo you posted, this is not a true statement.
That pic has several different brands of brass and even appears there may be a mix of commercial and military brass.
No saying you don't have a primer issue but quite possibly there are other contributing factors.
I would have to think they are seated all the way. I seat them untill ram stops moving. No more resistance than what i do on all my other cartridges. I compared depth with the 6x45 with a 223. Same case. Same depth. Never had this type of issue till this cartridge and these primers.
Military brass primer pocket depth can be all over the place. Best to use a primer pocket uniforming cutter to insure they are all the same so that the the firing pin travel is consistent.
If you switch from Federal to CCI primers and suddenly have problems it's highly likely you didn't get the primer seated and set the anvil or the firing pin/spring is the issue. The cup of the CCI's is harder and it takes some effort to get them seated.
I loaded 30 rounds recently with #34s and I was questioning if I seated one round well and I left it as is. Sure enough I had one round not fire. The pin indent looked good. Reloaded the round and it fired.
I loaded 30 rounds recently with #34s and I was questioning if I seated one round well and I left it as is. Sure enough I had one round not fire. The pin indent looked good. Reloaded the round and it fired.
The brass you show in your hand shows primers that a rounded like an unfired primer and all the way up to almost fully flat primers. Also there are FC cases, which can have less internal volume which can increase pressur, their also soft and show pressure type signs easier. Also the two cases without primers seem to have very large flash holes, which can also increase pressure. This may just be the photo. Have you fired any of these 450's in another gun? Have you looked at the anvil side to verify the pellet and anvil are installed? Have you checked headspace/shoulder on cases fired in this gun and compared them to your sized cases that did not fire. Try seating a bullet long enough to cause a snug bolt closure to keep the case from moving forward when hit by the firing pin. If this is the only gun doing it, it could have a weak firing pin spring, or crud in the bolt housing or even a factory defect in the inside machining. And the 41 and 450 primers have the same thick cup but the anvil on the 41 has shorter legs to prevent slam fires in automatic rifles like the AR-15. With the thick cup and shorter legged anvil any weakness in your ignition system will show up.
Frank
Frank
I'm starting to think that this may be a wise thing to do if you're going to use the small rifle magnum primers. I'm sure consistent seating against the bottom of the pocket will help things regardless of what brass or caliber you're using.
Well i think i might have found my issue. I took apart the unfired rounds, there was powder in them. Removed primers and compared with new ones. My eyes did not see anything different between them. So i checked cases at the shoulder. My fired cases were at 1.455, the f/l sized cases that i had not loaded were at 1.453 there was a little variation. The two cases that would not fire measures 1.437 thats a big difference. I can see it with them side by side. I swear these 2 had already been shot in this rifle and resized once. Now that i have a load figured out ill load up more and see what happens. Guess ill start there.
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xswanted
Gold $$ Contributor
Never had a problem with CCI primers not going off...may not be as primer problem. Could be a headspace problem caused by over sizing the brass I seen that happen. Or a mechanical problem in the firing system...weak spring ...dirt and grime..etc...slowing down the velocity, reducing the energy needed of the firing pin to fire the cartridge consistently.
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