Cast Bullet Coatings

[Kittitas George]

Many opinions out there, what is reliable? I think I'm going to load some Acme 38 sp. bullets, 125 gr. coated, using Unique powder, at low velocity. Lots of info, not sure of reliability. The Lyman, Cast Bullet Handbook doesn't mention coated bullets, unless I missed it, just lubed bullets. Any help will be appreciated.
Thank you, George

 

[AccelR8]

Not 38 Special but I recently went through 500, 9mm 115 grain coated Acme. No problems at all. I used jacketed bullet load data. One point is, as I'm sure you know, 9mm uses a taper crimp whereas 38 Spl. is traditionally roll crimped. I've read that a mild roll crimp is needed because a heavy roll may strip some of the coating.

 

[tommeboy]

I have shot over 50,000 pc bullets over the last 15 years. Use what ever load data you can find for that weight of bullet in lead. Some jacketed data works but not all.

 

[brokeasajoke]

Use cast data for coated. All my cast is coated anymore if I have to coat it myself.

 

[WayneShaw]

If you cast, it makes no sense to NOT PC them. Cast, size using the same lube you do to size brass. Clean and let dry. PC using a good powder, I size a second time but many don't.

 

[expiper]

Obviously, several of you have used powder coated bullets so I thought I'd ask if they would be practical to use in a 450 Bushmaster I acquired a box of 200 grain powder coated bullets recently and I'm curious if they would be practical to substitute for jacketed Bullets. The velocity hopefully would be somewhere around 2000 ft./s is this doable without leading problems ....thank you Roger

 

[XTR]

I suspect that you might run into some issues trying to get 2000fps. There are exceptions, some guys paper patch 45-70s to T. rex levels (read Mathews books) but most cast stuff finds a sweet spot in the 1500 plus or minus range.

Try it, work up from about 1400fps and see where it starts to slip.

When you look at the ballistics on these big fat pills MV isn’t the be all end all. It’s going to drop a foot and a half to two feet from a 100 yd zero at 200 yards at any achievable velocity, remember 45-70s killed buffalo with 405gr bullets at 1200 fps.

 

[dellet]

Obviously, several of you have used powder coated bullets so I thought I'd ask if they would be practical to use in a 450 Bushmaster I acquired a box of 200 grain powder coated bullets recently and I'm curious if they would be practical to substitute for jacketed Bullets. The velocity hopefully would be somewhere around 2000 ft./s is this doable without leading problems ....thank you Roger

It really depends on the hardness of the bullet, the type of coating, twist and surface finish of the bore. You can keep pressure to a reasonable level with a 200 grain bullet at that velocity, so it can work.

In the example below the bullet started having problems at around 1900fps. It was still holding its group and not leaving lead behind. At 2300 fps and 55,000psi it started down the bore across the lands. If you can capture your bullets it will tel you a lot more than just looking for lead.

 

[Uncle Grinch]

Not sure if this is something you would consider a “coating”, but is use it a lot on my cast bullets.

Ben's Liquid Lube

I've used LAR's 45/45/10 with great success, certainly nothing wrong with the lube. About 2 yrs. ago, I decided to venture off on my on with a similar lube. I picked up a can of liquid Johnson's Wax. After reading the instructions, it stated that each added coat dissolved the earlier...

www.artfulbullet.com

 

[expiper]

It really depends on the hardness of the bullet, the type of coating, twist and surface finish of the bore. You can keep pressure to a reasonable level with a 200 grain bullet at that velocity, so it can work.

In the example below the bullet started having problems at around 1900fps. It was still holding its group and not leaving lead behind. At 2300 fps and 55,000psi it started down the bore across the lands. If you can capture your bullets it will tel you a lot more than just looking for lead.

View attachment 1706565

Thank you for the detailed explanation which clarifies a lot for me about pressure and velocity and leading,,,,, I appreciate it,,,, Roger

 

[PhilC]

Not sure if this is something you would consider a “coating”, but is use it a lot on my cast bullets.

Ben's Liquid Lube

I've used LAR's 45/45/10 with great success, certainly nothing wrong with the lube. About 2 yrs. ago, I decided to venture off on my on with a similar lube. I picked up a can of liquid Johnson's Wax. After reading the instructions, it stated that each added coat dissolved the earlier...

www.artfulbullet.com

That's a tumble lube.

 

[PhilC]

I cast. Sometimes choose to PC and sometimes lube, depends what I'm in the mood for.

I've shot gas checked and lubed Saeco 071 (~160gr), NOE 154-FN, and RCBS 168-SP in my 7BR to 2150fps with no leading. I've shot PC'd same and saw no difference in accuracy. Which do I prefer? Depends on my mood.

For me it comes down to time. I can cast a pile today, gas check & size within 24hrs and be done. To PC, I wait to next day, then coat, bake, drop in a bucket of water to cool, and size afterward. For those I choose to gas check, I can either do that before or after they're coated. I've seen no difference in accuracy.

The advantage goes to PC if you plan to shoot immediately. With lubed alloy (except pure linotype) I'll process my bullets then let them sit at least 2 weeks before loading so they have reached full hardness.

The perception 'hard cast' for pistol is necessery is an old wive's tale, same goes for rifle under under 2000fps, it's the alloy that matters. For most pistol shooting 9 - 10bhn is more than adequate.

JMHO, commercially cast pistol bullets are harder than they need to be for most applications and nothing is gained by using them unless you always load to magnum level velocities.

I recovered a Saeco 071 cast in lino/lead at a 1:1 ratio and fired at a chrono'd 2150fps, will post a picture later.

 

[450BM]

Obviously, several of you have used powder coated bullets so I thought I'd ask if they would be practical to use in a 450 Bushmaster I acquired a box of 200 grain powder coated bullets recently and I'm curious if they would be practical to substitute for jacketed Bullets. The velocity hopefully would be somewhere around 2000 ft./s is this doable without leading problems ....thank you Roger

I’ve shot powder coated cast bullets in my 308 up to 2150 fps with zero leading problems. They are gas checked but I think that’s irrelevant to a leading problem, size matters most. These are 225gr smooth shank so there is A LOT of bullet to engage the rifling. My normal load for these is 17gr of 4227 or 15.5gr Lilgun give me around 1600 fps. This is accurate and very comfortable to shoot all day long!

I also shoot a lot (99.9%) of pc’d cast bullets in my 450BM. I’ve never had any leading problems in that either or any rifle I shoot cast in. I size them to .452 and have also sized to .454 but haven’t done any thorough tests comparing the two sizes yet. I started out using bullets I had for 45 acp, Lee 230gr RN and Lee 230gr TC. The TC worked better and I could get a gas check on it even though it’s not designed for it. Accuracy greatly improved with the GC installed on the TC bullet too. The biggest problem with those bullets though is getting them to seat straight as they are very short and the nose doesn’t fit my seating die correctly. They are still fun to plink with and get some trigger time! I loaded some of these with 12(ish)gr of Herco for a buddy that didn’t reload. They shot great for him and he wanted some more to hunt deer with. I’d load a bunch for myself but I’m almost out of Herco, down to about 4 oz, dang it…. Unique also works great, which I’m also low on, but BE-86 works as well as Unique.

Now I’m working with a 330gr cast PB but haven’t been overly impressed with accuracy yet. It’s as good, maybe a little better than the 230’s but still not great. I suspect a gas checked bullet about 400gr would be a sweet spot for it but I’m not giving up on the 330 yet! Using Blue Dot in my initial testing but will also try 4227 and LilGun.

When using the “easy to ignite” flake powders, I prime with a small pistol primer. I only use rifle or srm’s when use full charges of slower pistol powders.

 

[450BM]

The worst leading problem I ever had was in my S&W M29 8” barreled 44 magnum. This was with a 240gr lubed bullet pushed by 5gr of Unique. It was my 50ft indoor target load. I sized these to .429 because this was the size they were “supposed” to be, I was young, stupid and didn’t know any better. Got pretty good at clearing lead from the barrel. I haven’t tried it but I suspect a powder coated bullet sized to .429 would also lead the bore. I really don’t shoot this pistol anymore and shoot all my 44 magnum from a CVA Scout rifle. I size to .430 or .432 depending the on the bullet, powder coat them all, and none of them lead the barrel whether they are PB or GC.

These are all cast from pure wheel weights, so they aren’t all that hard. I’m sure the heat treating they get from powder coating hardens them some but not too concerned with it and have no way of testing them.

 

[450BM]

Many opinions out there, what is reliable? I think I'm going to load some Acme 38 sp. bullets, 125 gr. coated, using Unique powder, at low velocity. Lots of info, not sure of reliability. The Lyman, Cast Bullet Handbook doesn't mention coated bullets, unless I missed it, just lubed bullets. Any help will be appreciated.
Thank you, George

I treat a powder coated bullet just like I would any lubed cast bullet. Unique is good, I like 2.5-3gr of Bullseye with a bullet like that even better!

 

[450BM]

Not 38 Special but I recently went through 500, 9mm 115 grain coated Acme. No problems at all. I used jacketed bullet load data. One point is, as I'm sure you know, 9mm uses a taper crimp whereas 38 Spl. is traditionally roll crimped. I've read that a mild roll crimp is needed because a heavy roll may strip some of the coating.

If they are coated correctly, I don’t think any crimp will strip the coating. My backstops are pine logs and I’ve recovered many hundreds of bullets and am always amazed at how well the coating stays on, through everything!

 

[dk17hmr]

I definitely shoot full power 30-30 with powder coated gas checked bullets. 175s at 2100+ no issue.

 

[PhilC]

Recovered Saeco 071, alloy Pb & Lino 1:1, chrono'd 2150fps muzzle velocity. Found months later while walking my dog behind where I place my target stand.

 

[XTR]

@PhilC , are you sizing the 7s after coating?

I’ve never bothered with coating for my 45-70s but I’ve had a Ruger #3 in 30-40 Krag for several yrs that I’ve dabbled with off and on and PC is one of the things I’m thinking I want to do. I’ve basically only done velocity work up work with 200gr gas checks to date.

 

[big5ifty]

Obviously, several of you have used powder coated bullets so I thought I'd ask if they would be practical to use in a 450 Bushmaster I acquired a box of 200 grain powder coated bullets recently and I'm curious if they would be practical to substitute for jacketed Bullets. The velocity hopefully would be somewhere around 2000 ft./s is this doable without leading problems ....thank you Roger

There should be no problem at 2000 fps.

The velocity limit for powder coated bullets is not the powder coat, it's the lead hardness. At higher velocity, the lead needs to be harder so it doesn't strip in the rifling. If it does, the accuracy will be non-existent.