Case powder fill

[AJC]

Is there a calculation or table to check fill on a case with certain powder. I know case capacity by manufacturer changes so a calculator may be best. Does any one have a density ratio for varget and or hogden 4350. Also ramshot tac would be nice. Trying to figure fill on 223 and 308 for each powder.

 

[DocBII]

AJC,

Your best bet may be to go ahead an purchase QuickLoad. While not always accurate to the 2-3 percent level, it will get you close.

HTH,
DocBII

 

[timeout]

Look into the QuickLOAD program. It's invaluable for checking into various powder bullet combinations. Case fill rate percentages is one of the many things the program will tell you.
Oops! I see I was beaten to the punch. Anyway a second vote for QuickLOAD.

 

[Ramblerman]

Noslers online data gives percentage of fill volume in the event you hadn't seen that. Kevin

 

[dmoran]

@AJC

An easy method to accurately figure Load Density:
1. Seat a bullet into an unprimed case to your desired seating depth, and weigh it
2. Fill the rest of case with water by injecting it through the primer flash-hole, and weigh it
3. Subtract the the two weights and Compute:

• Powder capacity = cartridge capacity * powder bulk density
• Load density = Powder Charge / Powder Capacity

Bulk density is the powder's weight in any volume divided by the weight of water filling the same volume.
To find the bulk density for a powder first weigh a container (large as practical for your scale) to determine it's weight.
Next weigh it filled to the top with powder. Then the same again with water and weigh it again.
Divide the weight of powder by the weight of water. The result is the bulk density of the powder.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Advertised bulk densities for the powders you asked for:
.890-g/cm = Varget
.915-g/cm = H4350
.965-g/cm = TAC

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[dsculley]

Use a Lee dipper to weigh some powder. That will give you the weight and volume in CC. Compute your weight per CC. Use the water volume of your cases to compute volume in CC. Figuring percent case volume is easy then.

 

[mchees1]

I don't believe there is a real "easy" way to calculate it. I think the QuickLoad software should be close but not exact. I calculate my percent fills but it is rather involved and depends on the case volume, bullet shape and seating depth, and powder density. The numbers for powder density can be found with some internet searching.

To do the calculations, you have to have a fired case with the primer still in it (or buy some sort of primer plug). The Reader's Digest version of calculating would be to weigh empty case in grams, weigh your bullet in grams, seat your bullet in the case to its normal depth and mark it with a sharpie so you can re-insert the bullet to the exact same depth later. Fill case 100% full of water and re-insert your bullet slowly to the sharpie mark forcing out water as the bullet goes down into the case. Make sure the case is dry with no water drops on the outside. Weigh the case full of water with the bullet seated to the correct depth. The calculation is: (weight of case full of water + seated bullet - weight of empty case + bullet = weight of water inside the case with a seated bullet). 1 gram water = 1 cubic centimeter of volume. Your answer is the total volume in cubic centimeters that is available for powder with that case and that bullet. Now you have to calculate what that volume is equivalent to in grains of powder.

The numbers I have seen are for VMD (Volume Measure Density which is cc/gr) and Density (gr/cc). They are inverses of each other. If you know how many grains of powder it takes to make exactly 1 cc of volume, that is Density. If you know how many cc it takes for 1 grain of powder, that is VMD. If you know one of these then you can calculate the other one. If you know density, then take 1 and divide it by the density and you get VMD. If you know VMD, then take 1 and divide it by VMD and you get density.

Here are the numbers I have for the 3 powders you mentioned:
Varget: VMD=0.0731 Density=13.680
H4350: VMD=0.0725 Density=13.791
TAC: VMD=0.0658 Density=15.198

Hope that helps.

 

[AJC]

I don't believe there is a real "easy" way to calculate it. I think the QuickLoad software should be close but not exact. I calculate my percent fills but it is rather involved and depends on the case volume, bullet shape and seating depth, and powder density. The numbers for powder density can be found with some internet searching.

To do the calculations, you have to have a fired case with the primer still in it (or buy some sort of primer plug). The Reader's Digest version of calculating would be to weigh empty case in grams, weigh your bullet in grams, seat your bullet in the case to its normal depth and mark it with a sharpie so you can re-insert the bullet to the exact same depth later. Fill case 100% full of water and re-insert your bullet slowly to the sharpie mark forcing out water as the bullet goes down into the case. Make sure the case is dry with no water drops on the outside. Weigh the case full of water with the bullet seated to the correct depth. The calculation is: (weight of case full of water + seated bullet - weight of empty case + bullet = weight of water inside the case with a seated bullet). 1 gram water = 1 cubic centimeter of volume. Your answer is the total volume in cubic centimeters that is available for powder with that case and that bullet. Now you have to calculate what that volume is equivalent to in grains of powder.

The numbers I have seen are for VMD (Volume Measure Density which is cc/gr) and Density (gr/cc). They are inverses of each other. If you know how many grains of powder it takes to make exactly 1 cc of volume, that is Density. If you know how many cc it takes for 1 grain of powder, that is VMD. If you know one of these then you can calculate the other one. If you know density, then take 1 and divide it by the density and you get VMD. If you know VMD, then take 1 and divide it by VMD and you get density.

Here are the numbers I have for the 3 powders you mentioned:
Varget: VMD=0.0731 Density=13.680
H4350: VMD=0.0725 Density=13.791
TAC: VMD=0.0658 Density=15.198

Hope that helps.

Exactly what i needed your the best!!!

 

[mchees1]

Exactly what i needed your the best!!!

Hope it helps! Does take a little time but I enjoy the scientific approach and knowing what percent of a full charge does seem to help my SD numbers. I like to get around 95% to 100% capacity. Good luck with your loads.

 

[AJC]

Hope it helps! Does take a little time but I enjoy the scientific approach and knowing what percent of a full charge does seem to help my SD numbers. I like to get around 95% to 100% capacity. Good luck with your loads.

I have three rifles that can use similar powders and I was going to see how they compare for fill. Varget works well on 223 6mmbr and 308. I have not loaded 308 with varget yet. The three powders seem very similar in charistics. I am just getting all this stuff as my dad just passed and I would like to choose a start point for a full workup. Before accuracy loads were used with zero testing and I like you want empirical data to understand what is happening. I'm going to grab an 8lb jug and go through a full cycle.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Certainly it is desirable to have a fill ratio somewhere in the neighborhood of about 93-103%. However, it is far more important to use a powder with appropriate burn rate and energy content. Otherwise, you will not be achieving the velocities that you could have with a more appropriate powder. In other words, it's not just about fill ratio. I should add that kernel size also plays a role in that it may be better to use a powder with smaller kernels in cartridges with relatively small volume, if for no other reason than to minimize velocity deviation due to charge weight measuring errors. For example, H4350 is probably not going to be a great selection for .223 Rem because it has relatively large kernels and the velocities with a full case will be low relative to what you can get with Varget or H4895. It may also not be a very good powder for .308 Win for the same reasons unless using heavy bullets (200+ gr). Many factors besides case fill ratios go into selecting the best powder(s) for a given cartridge, bullet weight, and barrel length. Having a copy of QuickLoad is a very good way to get a rough idea of which powders are likely to perform well in a given cartridge and which ones might be better to hold off on.

 

[AJC]

Certainly it is desirable to have a fill ratio somewhere in the neighborhood of about 93-103%. However, it is far more important to use a powder with appropriate burn rate and energy content. Otherwise, you will not be achieving the velocities that you could have with a more appropriate powder. In other words, it's not just about fill ratio. I should add that kernel size also plays a role in that it may be better to use a powder with smaller kernels in cartridges with relatively small volume, if for no other reason than to minimize velocity deviation due to charge weight measuring errors. For example, H4350 is probably not going to be a great selection for .223 Rem because it has relatively large kernels and the velocities with a full case will be low relative to what you can get with Varget or H4895. It may also not be a very good powder for .308 Win for the same reasons unless using heavy bullets (200+ gr). Many factors besides case fill ratios go into selecting the best powder(s) for a given cartridge, bullet weight, and barrel length. Having a copy of QuickLoad is a very good way to get a rough idea of which powders are likely to perform well in a given cartridge and which ones might be better to hold off on.

I may have been mistaken about the 4350 and i have been looking at a ton of information. H4895 and h4350 are talked about a lot so its very reasonable that i could have confused the two. I have zero experience with either, having used tac and varget only. Thank you for bringing that up and i will go back and recheck

 

[AJC]

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html
Your are correct sir i crossed the numbers thanks.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I may have been mistaken about the 4350 and i have been looking at a ton of information. H4895 and h4350 are talked about a lot so its very reasonable that i could have confused the two. I have zero experience with either, having used tac and varget only. Thank you for bringing that up and i will go back and recheck

FWIW - There are a wide variety of powders suitable for .223 Rem and .308 Win. In the slow to med. burn rate range, I would list Hodgdon CFE223, IMR4320, Varget, IMR 4064, and VVN150, among others. For powders with a slightly faster burn rate, I would list H4895, VV N140, RL15, IMR4895, and IMR8208XBR, among others. Powders with an even faster burn rate suitable for lighter .223 Rem bullets might also might include H322, H335, and Benchmark. Choosing an appropriate powder for a given cartridge will depend largely on the barrel length and bullet weight, and there may often be more than just one "good" choice. Cost and availability can also be important factors.

 

[savagedasher]

I prefer my target gun to be 101 % fully using QL
My dashers are 107 % full

 

[AJC]

I prefer my target gun to be 101 % fully using QL
My dashers are 107 % full

107% Thats sounds like a lot of crunch

 

[savagedasher]

Not if you use a long drop tube and a slow pour
I only use had the neck with 3 thousand of neck tension and my bullet don’t move

 

[fatelvis]

For any of you that are into reloading enough to be concerned with % case fill (you're already showing you are more aware than many reloaders), treat yourself and buy Quickload. Not only is it extremely informative about ALL internal ballistics, (case fill is one of many, many, calculations), it is addictive! You will find yourself trying a multitude of options on every cartridge you load for. Good shootin'!