case fill % or burn %

[s4s4u]

But that isn't how powder burns. All the powder that will burn has been consumed at peak pressure or within the first inch or so of the bore, why pressure drops off dramatically after peak chamber pressure. Barrel length only allows the resultant gasses of the burn to continue accelerating over a longer period of time provided they're at a sufficient pressure to overcome friction.

What he said ^^^

 

[Webster]

Do you feel that QL helps you find accurate loads faster than trying a few different powders, bullets, seating depth and neck tension? The impression I get is that QL users feel it's a short cut to finding out what shoots accurately. Without ever using QL I tend to believe there are many important pieces of data you cannot input. Characteristics of the rifle barrel vibration, bore dimensions, bore quality, bullet, primer, bedding, stock ect. I am not trying to start a pissing match. I would like to get an honest opinion if QL can do a better or faster job at finding a good load for a particular rifle. If I asked 300 shooters at Kelbly’s Super Shoot I doubt many use QL. Maybe we need a poll.

 

[bigedp51]

But that isn't how powder burns. All the powder that will burn has been consumed at peak pressure or within the first inch or so of the bore, why pressure drops off dramatically after peak chamber pressure. Barrel length only allows the resultant gasses of the burn to continue accelerating over a longer period of time provided they're at a sufficient pressure to overcome friction.

What he said ^^^

This what I mean about people who don't have Quickload adding their 2 cents, and s4s4u if you had Quickload or read the material I posted you would have seen that the powder is "NOT" all burned "within the first inch or so of the bore". You have different barrel lengths, different powder burn rates and many other factors. And if you had the Powley pocket computer where you manually input all the data and get your output, and Quickload will do automatically and then spits out the data.

If you pick up the Hornady reloading manual and look at the load data for the .223 Remington it is for a 26 inch 1 in 12 twist barrel. And on the next page is the load data for .223 Service rifle for a 20 inch 1 in 9 twist barrel and on the next page is load data for the 5.56mm NATO with a 20 inch barrel and a 1 in 7 twist. Then on top of this you have all the different chambers and throats added to the mix. And last but not least you have manuals like Sierra that will show you the accuracy loads for the mixed bag of rifles above and they use different powders for all these rifles "SO" the percent burned and the case fill percentage have there seasons. And the reason I pictured and used pistol loading data was because the barrel length makes a more dramatic effect with powder burn rate, percent of powder burned and barrel length.

Now look at the link below and read the posting by A. J. Peacock and his Quickload charts.

Here is the first paragraph and it wasn't written by me.

"If all the combustion was done at 2" and the max pressure was the same, then the pressure curve would be the same for all powders. The pressure would drop as a direct relationship to the increase in the interior space created within the barrel as the bullet moved forward. All powder would have the same pressure curve if it had the same maximum pressure."

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/barrel-length-powder-burn-rates-42922/index3.html

And the "old" Powley computer told me the same thing and it came out in the 1960s. (but it made you work for the answers)

 

[Webster]

Why would I care if all of the powder burned in the barrel if the rifle was accurate? I wouldn't trust any calculator developed in 1960. I think we have progressed in 54 years. The government uses multi million dollar super computers to determine the burn rates and pressure curves for solid fuel rockets. I would think a steel cylinder with a hole on one end would be simpler than the many variables in a rifle.

 

[bigedp51]

Do you feel that QL helps you find accurate loads faster than trying a few different powders, bullets, seating depth and neck tension? The impression I get is that QL users feel it's a short cut to finding out what shoots accurately. Without ever using QL I tend to believe there are many important pieces of data you cannot input. Characteristics of the rifle barrel vibration, bore dimensions, bore quality, bullet, primer, bedding, stock ect. I am not trying to start a pissing match. I would like to get an honest opinion if QL can do a better or faster job at finding a good load for a particular rifle. If I asked 300 shooters at Kelbly’s Super Shoot I doubt many use QL. Maybe we need a poll.

I never did this but I think that with Quickload you can combine "Optimal Charge Weight" and "Optimal Barrel Time" to find the best load using the least amount of powder.
Meaning not having to make up countless workup loads and wear and tear on the barrel finding the right load.

This is my understanding and I may be wrong, and I didn't delve into this because I didn't have a chronograph to "Tweak it".

Topic: OCW - OBT load development with QuickLOAD
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3806680.0

Topic: OCW - OBT load development with QuickLOAD
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3806680.0

OPTIMAL CHARGE WEIGHT
http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#

Optimal Barrel Time
http://www.the-long-family.com/optimal%20barrel%20time.htm

This is all I node,

 

[bigedp51]

Hard to believe I still occasionally read this drivel.

And now, more drivel.....

drivel
noun 1. silly nonsense.
"don't talk such drivel!"
synonyms: nonsense, twaddle, claptrap, balderdash, gibberish, rubbish, mumbo jumbo, garbage; More

verb: drivel; 3rd person present: drivels; past tense: drivelled; past participle: drivelled; gerund or present participle: drivelling; past tense: driveled; past participle: driveled; gerund or present participle: driveling
1. talk nonsense.
"he was driveling on about the glory days"
synonyms: talk nonsense, talk rubbish, babble, ramble, gibber, blather, prattle, gabble, waffle
"you always drivel on"
2. archaic
let saliva or mucus flow from the mouth or nose; dribble.


ego
1. The part of you that defines itself as a personality, separates itself from the outside world, and considers itself (read: you) a separate entity from the rest of nature and the cosmos. Perhaps necessary for survival in some evolutionary bygone, in modern times it leads only to (albeit often disguised) misanthropic beliefs and delusion.


forum
1. A forum is a space where like minded individuals can contribute information of mutual benefit. A forum is a repository of data which is meant to inform and educate on a particular subject.
Forums generally are not conversational, rather, they are contributory.


bitch slap
1. To open handedley slap someone. Denote disrespect for the person being bitch slapped as they are not worthy of a man sized punch.
Suggests the slap was met with little resistance and much whining

 

[acssa]

Thanks, This helped alot!

Hard to believe I still occasionally read this drivel.

And now, more drivel.....

drivel
noun 1. silly nonsense.
"don't talk such drivel!"
synonyms: nonsense, twaddle, claptrap, balderdash, gibberish, rubbish, mumbo jumbo, garbage; More

verb: drivel; 3rd person present: drivels; past tense: drivelled; past participle: drivelled; gerund or present participle: drivelling; past tense: driveled; past participle: driveled; gerund or present participle: driveling
1. talk nonsense.
"he was driveling on about the glory days"
synonyms: talk nonsense, talk rubbish, babble, ramble, gibber, blather, prattle, gabble, waffle
"you always drivel on"
2. archaic
let saliva or mucus flow from the mouth or nose; dribble.


ego
1. The part of you that defines itself as a personality, separates itself from the outside world, and considers itself (read: you) a separate entity from the rest of nature and the cosmos. Perhaps necessary for survival in some evolutionary bygone, in modern times it leads only to (albeit often disguised) misanthropic beliefs and delusion.


forum
1. A forum is a space where like minded individuals can contribute information of mutual benefit. A forum is a repository of data which is meant to inform and educate on a particular subject.
Forums generally are not conversational, rather, they are contributory.


bitch slap
1. To open handedley slap someone. Denote disrespect for the person being bitch slapped as they are not worthy of a man sized punch.
Suggests the slap was met with little resistance and much whining

 

[acssa]

Dave

Thanks, This helped alot!

Hard to believe I still occasionally read this drivel.

acssa, if you look at the winning loads in point blank benchrest you'll probably find the vast majority to be close to 100% in both case fill and percent combustion. Long range benchrest is more like 96% fill and 98% burned. My 30 BR's are the most consistent in velocity ES of the few rifles I own, sometime 1 FPS for five rounds, and that load is 104% fill (load density) and 100% combustion. On the other hand I campaigned a 243 sporter for three years in factory class that was pretty much unbeatable and the numbers were 95% load density and 85% combustion - it was dribbling unburned powder but it did shoot.

I'm a firm believer in QuickLoad and run everything I shoot through it. It's biggest benefit is in helping you choose a powder that gets close to the 100/100 nirvana. If you go through the QuickLoad drill of best powder for a .222 with 52 grain bullets you'll probably pick IMR-4198 which interestingly was pretty much the powder of choice when the cartridge ruled.

My personal preference is around 98-103% case fill and if the combustion is around 97% I'm OK with that.

And now, more drivel.....

 

[Webster]

The bullet only see's time and pressure. % burn and % fill are a human perception. My computer is at the target.