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Case accuracy longevity

6.5 forever

Silver $$ Contributor
At the range this morning a fellow shooter told me a top competitive shooter said a case will loose accuracy after many reloads. Is this true?

I have two boxes of Lapua 6.5 CM that have been loaded 22 times. They are annealed after each firing and the case shoulder is bumped half a thousand. The primer pockets are still snug. Am I costing my self accuracy on target?
 
Sometimes, even the "top competitors" are not experts, sometimes they are.

Brass prep certainly matters, and if the annealing isn't well done it can become an issue, as can the friction coefficient inside the necks.

The only way to know, is to test in your exact context. YMMV
 
No......The Rat gave you a very good answer. As soon as "Charlie" tells you what " Frank" says, run. Talk to some one who has done it first hand. Learn from a tester, you will be far ahead. Or, test yourself. Your annealing, bumping, have tight primer pockets, and have not complained about failing accuracy.......good job. Trust what you see with your own eyes and do with your own hands.
 
No......The Rat gave you a very good answer. As soon as "Charlie" tells you what " Frank" says, run. Talk to some one who has done it first hand. Learn from a tester, you will be far ahead. Or, test yourself. Your annealing, bumping, have tight primer pockets, and have not complained about failing accuracy.......good job. Trust what you see with your own eyes and do with your own hands.
Great info.
 
People will tell you primer pockets "wear out", nope, they don't. Used the same piece of brass for 50 shots a day for 5-6 days straight, may have had 100 on it the one day. Primer pocket was fine, have 100+ more like that too. May not have got away with that on high pressure loads in a bottleneck case, but, even then, they wouldn't be "wore out", just expanded. Those cases just need annealing now, they got to the point where I was getting lube blowby around the necks, they'd never been sized or annealed.
 
I used to think that……,,untill I started shouting a 30BR.

I have cases that I have no idea how many times the have been fired. And they still shoot great.

And, I never anneal, I do nothing to the flash holes, Nothing to the primer pockets,and the only cleaning they get is a quick wipe inside the neck with a nylon brush.

Of course, these are all formed from Lapua 6BR brass.
 
Are some of you really implying that brass lasts infinitely? I'm sure it can last a really long time shot and lower pressures, worked minimally and annealed. But infinitely? Not in my experience but I don't load that way either.
 
Are some of you really implying that brass lasts infinitely? I'm sure it can last a really long time shot and lower pressures, worked minimally and annealed. But infinitely? Not in my experience but I don't load that way either.
I haven't bothered taking any of the other brass I own past 12 loads, other than maybe 22-250's years back on gophers, I don't remember how far I took those before deciding I had my money's worth from them, I did about 16-20 trips a year on those, believe I likely just bought new brass every year, that was 30-35 yrs ago. The 32-30 & 32-40 were both shot in comps, and a pile of daily practice.
Could be, that if it doesn't stretch first, there is probably a limit on how many pressure/temp/sizing cycles the lower body can take before it hardens up, no idea what that is though. Thinking that would be well into or past the prime life cycle of a barrel though.
 
Are some of you really implying that brass lasts infinitely? I'm sure it can last a really long time shot and lower pressures, worked minimally and annealed. But infinitely? Not in my experience but I don't load that way either.
I shoot in the upper part of the upper load window with my 6PPC, 3450 fps anverage. and I will shoot the cases until the primers won’t stay in. That is usually around 10 firings.

I have a die I modified that hits the web pretty hard, allowing for continued loadings.

I shoot my 30BR at 3050 fps with my 112 out of a 22 inch barrel. While that is not insanely high in the load window it certainly isn’t mild.

As for annealing. I think it’s a waste of time in 100/200 yard score and group. In fact, Ed Bernabeo and I had access to a AMP machine last year, and we annealed around 100 30BR cases. They all had to be fired again before they went back to their usual agging capability.
 
I shoot in the upper part of the upper load window with my 6PPC, 3450 fps anverage. and I will shoot the cases until the primers won’t stay in. That is usually around 10 firings.

I have a die I modified that hits the web pretty hard, allowing for continued loadings.

I shoot my 30BR at 3050 fps with my 112 out of a 22 inch barrel. While that is not insanely high in the load window it certainly isn’t mild.

As for annealing. I think it’s a waste of time in 100/200 yard score and group. In fact, Ed Bernabeo and I had access to a AMP machine last year, and we annealed around 100 30BR cases. They all had to be fired again before they went back to their usual agging capability.
I agree on all counts. I didn't think you were implying infinite brass life.
 
At the range this morning a fellow shooter told me a top competitive shooter said a case will loose accuracy after many reloads. Is this true?

I have two boxes of Lapua 6.5 CM that have been loaded 22 times. They are annealed after each firing and the case shoulder is bumped half a thousand. The primer pockets are still snug. Am I costing my self accuracy on target?
What JEFPPC said. Tommy Mc
 
I would posit this question, what is the going rate for another shooter’s used match brass? Suppose even, that it’s an excellent, careful shooter.

In my experience actions and rests are considered the least diminished by careful use.

Stocks and scopes are lucky to obtain half of the original price.

Used brass and barrels, even when examinable, are so speculative that if they can be sold at all it’s for 10% or less. I recently bought 4 used 6 PPC chambered bbls for $100.

When the head does expand from pressure, which is when the pocket gets loose, I believe the shot will be bad. It could be at once in 1 shot or spread out over 2-3.
 
This has been a few years back but is precisely to the point, I think. I was shooting my 30 Major, formed from excellent 6.5 Grendel brass. FWIW, it uses small primers and small flash holes and necks were turned for a .330 chamber neck. IME, that brass is equivalent to 220 Russian brass formed to 6 PPC.

I was struggling during a particular match and had been for at least a couple of matches prior. It was progressively becoming clearer that the gun was double grouping....3&2's etc, but clearly double grouping. I was scratching my head and of course blaming conditions and such for a while. I had thrown everything at it but the kitchen sink and new brass. Told the guy next to me, who is an excellent and very experienced shooter what I had been fighting. After listing and ruling out several possible causes between us, he asked how old my brass is. I kinda doubted it but I had exhausted just about all other causes. It had 50 firings on it and not at all pussycat loads. Back then, annealing was not nearly as commonplace as now but I had annealed it once at about its midlife..around 25 firings.

Bottom line, I went home and made up all new brass and it was like a new gun. It solved it, no doubt. It's still the only time I've gone that far with brass and it was a couple or so, too many in my case. There are variables, of course...like pressure, the annealing and how much I was working the brass with each firing/sizing. I typically run pretty heavy neck tension in the 30's and I tend to prefer a tad more aggressive sizing than some. All factors have that some amount of value in all of this, so definitely, ymmv and I don't think you can possibly put a definitive number on brass life, aside from a swag at it. But in this example, it was absolutely the cause of my issues. I know well that there are examples of far less as well as more firings on brass but unless all things are identical, it's apples to oranges.

It was definitely a case for head scratching as I had never seen that exact scenario play out. With my 6's, I typically lose the primer pockets well before any of that. Even if I didn't, I will never push brass that far again because it was just to hard to diagnose until it became clear and I wasted quite a bit of time and money before I got it shooting right while it was the brass all along. Easy enough in hindsight, but do not assume that brass will last forever. It won't. It might seem like it with moderate loads and such but it definitely has a point where it's not worth it to try to squeeze a few more shots out of it.

These times we are in at the moment are different and hopefully not the new normal but keep some new brass on hand if possible and save yourself a major PITA.
 
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I would posit this question, what is the going rate for another shooter’s used match brass? Suppose even, that it’s an excellent, careful shooter.

In my experience actions and rests are considered the least diminished by careful use.

Stocks and scopes are lucky to obtain half of the original price.

Used brass and barrels, even when examinable, are so speculative that if they can be sold at all it’s for 10% or less. I recently bought 4 used 6 PPC chambered bbls for $100.

When the head does expand from pressure, which is when the pocket gets loose, I believe the shot will be bad. It could be at once in 1 shot or spread out over 2-3.
I don't think it's ideal to use brass fired in a different chamber but it can work, especially if the chamber it was fired in first is any at all tighter than the latter bbl/chamber. A lot has to do with the pressure it was fired at during that first firing or so too. If mild loads, you can likely get by with it pretty well and for a long time in a bigger chamber. We have to look at brass at its largest point, which is when it's under pressure and the bbl expanded as much as the load and bbl allows or dictates. No reasonable amount of sizing will ever completely clear the "memory" from its largest state, which is where it will spend the rest of its life trying to expand to. Hence clickers in that scenario being common.
 

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