Carbon in the throat, what to look out for.

[Mark W]

You are with Bartlein?

I took it as a copy & paste from Bartlein’s website.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I just went through every page on Bartleins website, I find nothing. So if you use the other products are you saying it is ok to shoot over them? I don`t think so.

 

[newbieshooter]

cleaning part of our website for information on cleaning. We do not recommend things like Iosso bore paste. Why? There is no way to be sure you have removed it 100% from the barrel from cleaning. Some shooters who have used it clean their barrel have found afterwards the barrel all of a sudden had fouling issues. We will not warranty any barrel cleaned with Iosso bore paste type cleaners. We feel the paste cleaners get imbedded into the bore and not properly cleaned out. So the next rounds fired thru the barrel and if there is any residual paste left over it will damage the bore of the barrel. If you want to use a paste type cleaner we recommend Rem. bore cleaner (it is called 40x cleaner now and in the past it use to be Gold Medallion) or use JB Borecompound (not the JB bore brite).

I just went through every page on Bartleins website, I find nothing. So if you use the other products are you saying it is ok to shoot over them? I don`t think so.

Just an FYI: I found the referenced text on the FAQ page: https://bartleinbarrels.com/barrel-faq/

 

[JEFFPPC]

Just an FYI: I found the referenced text on the FAQ page: https://bartleinbarrels.com/barrel-faq/

View attachment 1176436

Newbie, thanks for your response. Funny thing, I can remember hearing back in the Gold Medallion days it was no good for your barrels. Now I have a new excuse for poor shooting, lol.

 

[BoydAllen]

I have used IOSSO for years, on various brands of barrels, but only as often as needed, and my removal is quite elaborate and takes some time. I have found that a light oil is better for floating out these kinds of products, followed by solvent. Some people should not use pointed scissors or sharp knives, but that does not mean that they are not great tools.

 

[D-4297]

Maybe you weren't working with 416 SS in your shop.

All due respect , Sir . I have seen brass hand brushes scratch Incamel and the surfaces of Monel and Incanel flapper valves to the point of failing inspection for use in APU units . And they had to be re-lapped" . Always amuses me that some use a abrasive Bore paste in a barrel , and their belief and conviction is that it "polishes" the surface .All the while claiming it doesn't "scratch" the barrel surface . Guess you don't magnify the "Surface" to the level of "seeing" the scratches , huh ?

 

[rardoin]

I use Iosso properly on nylon brushes with a proper rod and use bronze brushes with carbon remover. I cannot detect any damage with my Hawkeye. If greater magnification is required to see the scratches then they are of no consequence. I know a bunch of other F-class shooters that do the same. Our targets and scores don't seem to care. I agree wholeheartedly with @BoydAllen .

 

[Jguseil]

All due respect , Sir . I have seen brass hand brushes scratch Incamel and the surfaces of Monel and Incanel flapper valves to the point of failing inspection for use in APU units . And they had to be re-lapped" . Always amuses me that some use a abrasive Bore paste in a barrel , and their belief and conviction is that it "polishes" the surface .All the while claiming it doesn't "scratch" the barrel surface . Guess you don't magnify the "Surface" to the level of "seeing" the scratches , huh ?

Inconel?

 

[D-4297]

A alloy developed back when . Had high heat resistance properties , while maintaining shape and size , without distortion due to same . Space-age , super secret squirrel stuff back in the 60's .

 

[BoydAllen]

Look, I have been to more than a few matches where world record holders were in attendance, as well as Hall of Fame members, and members of the US team for the World Benchrest Championship. As far as I can remember they all used bronze brushes and not a one took theirs off at the muzzle. Do you have any idea how coarse the abrasive is that barrel makers finish lap with to minimize jacket fouling? Scratch the bore? Barrel makers intentionally texture their bores for functional reasons. None would survive if they produced mirror finishes. You could never break them in.

 

[butchlambert]

Look, I have been to more than a few matches where world record holders were in attendance, as well as Hall of Fame members, and members of the US team for the World Benchrest Championship. As far as I can remember they all used bronze brushes and not a one took theirs off at the muzzle. Do you have any idea how coarse the abrasive is that barrel makers finish lap with to minimize jacket fouling? Scratch the bore? Barrel makers intentionally texture their bores for functional reasons. None would survive if they produced mirror finishes. You could never break them in.

About 280-320 grit Boyd. Bronze brushes scratching Inconel? Chuckle chuckle

 

[rardoin]

.....snip...Bronze brushes scratching Inconel? Chuckle chuckle

Bronze smears from the bristles perhaps. I once tried to part off the edge of an Inconel turbine wheel center boss with a Kennametal carbide parting insert..... I don't think I would have done any better with a bronze parting blade.

 

[Texas10]

I used to make afterburner parts for military jet engines using inconel and incoloy. It's quite tough and you can indeed scratch it, but resisting abrasion at room temperature is not what it's designed for. It's made to withstand high (2000 degree) heat in a combustion zone. Apples and oranges comparison to gun barrel steel.

In my experience a bronze brush is simply too soft to harm barrel steel, as evidenced by close inspection via borescope camera before and after use. By comparison, a SS steel wire wheel will polish a barrel to a brilliant shine. Is bronze harder or more abrasive than Stainless steel?

If anyone can post actual before and after pics of damage caused by a bronze brush, please do so. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be extremely interested in seeing the evidence. Until then, I'll regard that claim as simply urban myth.

 

[Cecil S.]

Good read here.

 

[skeeljc]

If you need to remove a carbon ring in the throat just soak a patch with Bore Tech C4 and let it sit on the carbon ring for 10 to 20 minutes then ues a good bronze brush. It always removes the ring for me.

 

[Al Lu]

@Texas10 "after a thorough cleaning, which took less than 5 minutes" Can you give us your methods of removing Carbon? Trying to learn. Thanks.

 

[6MMsteve]

if you use a patch and jag wouldn't the patch come off when you pull the rod back?

use the Speedy Gonzales method patch will not come off...looks like a button when finished...used the Speedy
method with success for last 5 yrs

 

[6MMsteve]

if you use a patch and jag wouldn't the patch come off when you pull the rod back?

REL BREAK-IN & CLEANING INSTRUCTIONS

Many of our customers upon taking delivery of their new gun or barrel are in a quandary as how to go about breaking-in that new barrel for maximum life and accuracy. With so much written in magazines these days stating use this, don't use that, brush, don't brush...what's a person to do?? At S.G.&Y Precision, we have a unique opportunity to inspect many barrels on a daily basis with our video borescope. Consequently, we see the results of a variety of break-in as well as cleaning procedures, and most of them leave the rifle owners with their mouth agape when they see the fruits of their misinformed labor on our color monitor. We have seen practically new barrels ruined with less than a hundred rounds shot through them by some of the crazy and sometimes humorous break-in methods. Anyway here goes for what it's worth.


Bore guides - If you don't have one get one! Without a good bore guide you are just wasting your time trying to break-in a barrel or cleaning it for that matter. More barrels are destroyed by cleaning without a bore guide than by shooting. There are many types and brands of bore guides available on the market and range in price from $5.00 to $50.00. The only one we recommend is the Lucas two-piece bore guide. They are the best insurance you can buy for that new barrel. All other bore guides in my opinion are only good for keeping the solvents out of the trigger and action.


Solvents - We recommend Sweets 7.62 for copper and a solvent mix of our own (Actually Pat McMlllan gave me this formula) for powder fouling and for cleaning/storing your gun for the next match or season. This Speedy Formula is made as follows: Mix 2/3rds Hoppes # 9 Plus Black Powder solvent with 1/3rd Regular Hoppes # 9 Nitro solvent. Let this mixture set overnight and it will form a sort of gel that adheres very well to the brush and cuts powder fouling to a minimum. Note: Butches Boreshine may be substituted for this Speedy formula.


Procedure for "Break-in"- Before firing that first shot, clean the barrel as if it had been shot by following these simple steps:


Step1 - Insert Lucas bore guide into receiver and chamber. If you don't have one stop here and get one, if not, just shoot your gun and forget trying to take any care of your barrel at all. Lf you do have one, proceed and give yourself an "At-A-Boy" for being astute enough to have purchased the proper tools for the job. Note: One "Aw-Shit" wipes out all your "At-A-Boys".



Step 2 - Run one wet patch of Sweets through the bore and let soak for approximately 30 seconds. Do not patch this out.



Step 3 – Next, run the brush through the barrel only enough to expose the entire brush. Yes, I know that you still have 12 more inches of cleaning rod you could push out the end of your barrel but we want to protect that new crown. Also. if that rod hangs out that far, you will eventually start wearing down the rifling at the crown from about 4 to 7 o'clock. This is very bad "JU-JU" for accuracy. OK, back to our next step. Once the brush is exposed, saturate it well with our Speedy Formula or Butch's Boreshine and SLOWLY run the brush through the bore 10 complete back and forth passes while keeping the rod as straight as possible. This is when the Lucas bore guide really pays for itself. Remember, the key word is slowly. We are not trying to break any speed records. Let this sit a minute or two and proceed to the next step.


Step 4 - After you have let the barrel soak for a few moments, saturate a patch with the Speedy Formula or Butch's Boreshine and pass it through the bore. Follow this with 2 dry patches and then dry the chamber with Brake Kleen or lighter fluid. Next, gently wipe the crown off with a soft cloth and lube your bolt (lets not gall the lugs just yet). Now. your ready to shoot your first shot. Then follow the schedule below to complete your barrel break-in.


1. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 1 shot.

2. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 5 shots.

3. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 10 shots.

4. Clean barrel / lube bolt /10 to 15 shots and clean again.


Additional Cleaning Tips

Each time you clean you may also follow the last dry patch with a patch soaked with LOCK-EEZ. This is a graphite powder suspended in a quick evaporating carrier that coats the bore slightly before passing that first round through a completely dry bore.


We are always asked about powder fouling and how to remove it. The only product that we have seen that really does a good job on powder fouling, especially on the carbon ring that forms just ahead of where the neck ends in the chamber, is IOSSO Bore Paste. This is used with a Pro-Shot nylon bristle brush and worked slowly in the neck and throat areas, then slowly down the entire bore. Follow this up with a few wet patches, then dry the bore as usual. and your ready to shoot.


Follow the outline above for your regular cleaning program and I promise that your barrels will deliver their greatest accuracy and life without a lot of grief and hours of wondering if they are clean.



Good Shooting,

Speedy Gonzalez

 

[Texas10]

@Texas10 "after a thorough cleaning, which took less than 5 minutes" Can you give us your methods of removing Carbon? Trying to learn. Thanks.

I'll pm you my cleaning process.

 

[Rick300]

Inconel?

That brings back memories of when I worked in a shipyard on submarines. Man, that was some TOUGH stuff!