Carbon barrels in competition

[Scalloper]

Why is it I don’t remember seeing any carbon fiber barrels in F class or bench rest shooting?

 

[butchlambert]

Why is it I don’t remember seeing any carbon fiber barrels in F class or bench rest shooting?

You probably won't. Maybe there is a message there.

 

[Doug Beach]

No advantages, with the benefit of added disadvantages .

 

[Toptom]

I think the price tag is a factor also, basically twice the cost most of the time.

 

[Dave M.]

Why is it I don’t remember seeing any carbon fiber barrels in F class or bench rest shooting?

I don’t see any advantages of a carbon barrel, other than weight….and I certainly don’t know of any advantages of carbon barrels that are inherent to world class accuracy.

 

[gme]

in fairness, that's not what they are designed for, anymore than a 30" long 1.25" straight contour belongs on a hunting rifle, they are definitely not suitable for every application but for the individual than wants a 3 pound barrel with a muzzle diameter large enough to provide an optimal shoulder for attachment of a suppressor and deep enough pockets to pay for the cool factor it makes sense, in my experience with them (Proof Research) they have all been very good shooters.

 

[INTJ]

Carbon wrapped barrels are simply not a good choice when we want top accuracy. Generally, the more steel in the barrel the less fussy it is. Carbon wrapped barrels are lacking in this regard.

Further, carbon wrapped barrels trap heat. The resin encased carbon fiber acts as an insulator, so the heat is kept inside the barrel instead of radiating outward and dissipating--regardless what the manufacturers may try to tell you. Many of them shoot just like the skinny steel barrel liner they have, walking badly after two shots.

Now some are very accurate for a hunting rifle, but they aren't close to BR accurate. Here are a couple examples. I recently chambered a sendero contour in 300 PRC. I got it to shoot 230 Hybrids into .4" 3-shot group at 100 yds. I validated that by shooting a 1" group at 300 yds. Also, I recently chambered a sendero light barrel in 6.5 PRC. I shot back to back .3s with 124 Hammer Hunters. I still need to validate it at 300 yds.

While those two examples are excellent for a hunting rifle, and examples of when carbon barrels shoot well; I usually get .3 to .4" groups (that is INCH, not MOA) at 300-385 yds with my LR BR rifles.

So the good carbon barrels are fine on hunting rifles. However, a spiral or diamond fluted #5 contour steel barrel weighs within a couple ounces for a carbon wrapped Sendero contour, and there is a 95% chance the steel #5 will shoot well. With a carbon barrel I'd give it a 50% chance of shooting well. This is based on what I have seen after shooting a bunch of carbon barrels. And it's not just my experience. I know several other rifle builders who have experienced the same thing.

I think Sendero contour in a carbon barrel is as light as we should go for anything 7mm and over. The bull and magnum contour carbons seem fine, but they usually have a heavy steel liner.

All that said, the carbon barrel makers are very good about warranting their product, but you might be out the cost for another chamber and brake job.

 

[big5ifty]

From what I can see, the weight of the rifle is mostly in the barrel, as heavy as the class weight limit will allow, to try keep the center of gravity as close to the bore axis as possible to help track straight back on recoil.

Saving weight in the barrel is counter-productive for that purpose, the trend is for heavier barrels and lighter stocks.

Carbon fiber stocks is where the weight gets saved, to be put into the barrel.

F-Class tells us that carbon fiber barrels do not offer better accuracy at 1000 yards, because if shooters could routinely save just one point with a carbon fiber barrel, it would be a general trend already.

 

[Scalloper]

Carbon wrapped barrels are simply not a good choice when we want top accuracy. Generally, the more steel in the barrel the less fussy it is. Carbon wrapped barrels are lacking in this regard.

Further, carbon wrapped barrels trap heat. The resin encased carbon fiber acts as an insulator, so the heat is kept inside the barrel instead of radiating outward and dissipating--regardless what the manufacturers may try to tell you. Many of them shoot just like the skinny steel barrel liner they have, walking badly after two shots.

Now some are very accurate for a hunting rifle, but they aren't close to BR accurate. Here are a couple examples. I recently chambered a sendero contour in 300 PRC. I got it to shoot 230 Hybrids into .4" 3-shot group at 100 yds. I validated that by shooting a 1" group at 300 yds. Also, I recently chambered a sendero light barrel in 6.5 PRC. I shot back to back .3s with 124 Hammer Hunters. I still need to validate it at 300 yds.

While those two examples are excellent for a hunting rifle, and examples of when carbon barrels shoot well; I usually get .3 to .4" groups (that is INCH, not MOA) at 300-385 yds with my LR BR rifles.

So the good carbon barrels are fine on hunting rifles. However, a spiral or diamond fluted #5 contour steel barrel weighs within a couple ounces for a carbon wrapped Sendero contour, and there is a 95% chance the steel #5 will shoot well. With a carbon barrel I'd give it a 50% chance of shooting well. This is based on what I have seen after shooting a bunch of carbon barrels. And it's not just my experience. I know several other rifle builders who have experienced the same thing.

I think Sendero contour in a carbon barrel is as light as we should go for anything 7mm and over. The bull and magnum contour carbons seem fine, but they usually have a heavy steel liner.

All that said, the carbon barrel makers are very good about warranting their product, but you might be out the cost for another chamber and brake job.

Thanks for the details. This is the information I was looking for, bad or good.
I ask because I have been considering buying a Ridgeline in 28 Nosler with a carbon barrel. Obliviously a hunting rifle. I have a custom Tikka in 7mm rm that shoots very well for a hunting rig, its just very heavy with a 30" straight barrel. I have made several one shot kills at over 525 yds which is about all I am looking for in a hunting rig.
The reason I ask why I haven't seen any carbon barrels in competition is all of the marketing hype I have read from several manufactures claiming "as good" accuracy as steel barrels.

 

[FNSafari]

Do you really need a 30' barrel in the 7mm RM vs. a 26"? Those 4" are quite heavy. Only asking because I don't know.

 

[INTJ]

From what I can see, the weight of the rifle is mostly in the barrel, as heavy as the class weight limit will allow, to try keep the center of gravity as close to the bore axis as possible to help track straight back on recoil.

Saving weight in the barrel is counter-productive for that purpose, the trend is for heavier barrels and lighter stocks.

Carbon fiber stocks is where the weight gets saved, to be put into the barrel.

F-Class tells us that carbon fiber barrels do not offer better accuracy at 1000 yards, because if shooters could routinely save just one point with a carbon fiber barrel, it would be a general trend already.

It's even more so with LRBR. If something will save .1 MOA, we will do it. An inch at 1000 yds is a big deal. No one uses carbon that I have seen

 

[butchlambert]

in fairness, that's not what they are designed for, anymore than a 30" long 1.25" straight contour belongs on a hunting rifle, they are definitely not suitable for every application but for the individual than wants a 3 pound barrel with a muzzle diameter large enough to provide an optimal shoulder for attachment of a suppressor and deep enough pockets to pay for the cool factor it makes sense, in my experience with them (Proof Research) they have all been very good shooters.

Gary, my complaint with them in a hunting rifle is offhand. With the lightweight barrel you are just stirring the air while trying to hold point of aim.

 

[Scalloper]

Do you really need a 30' barrel in the 7mm RM vs. a 26"? Those 4" are quite heavy. Only asking because I don't know.

My intention was to cut it back and rechamber it once the throat eroded

 

[swd]

Barrels on competition rifles are like tires on a race car, they’re consumable so no one wants to pay almost double. In F Open we’re building 22lb rifles and we want the weight of an all steel barrel. And then there’s so much more potential for accuracy issues..

 

[Dave M.]

My intention was to cut it back and rechamber it once the throat eroded

Don’t waste your time

 

[Liven The Dream]

F/Open looks to be a group equipment following .
Show up at Match with one and sales may rise ?

 

[Scalloper]

F/Open looks to be a group equipment following .
Show up at Match with one and sales may rise ?

If the carbon barrels shoot as good as advertised then why don't one of the top manufactures sponsor someone to compete with one?

 

[Liven The Dream]

If the carbon barrels shoot as good as advertised then why don't one of the top manufactures sponsor someone to compete with one?

If ? As Good Advertised ? That is the Question .

 

[Sniperhandle]

Thanks for the details. This is the information I was looking for, bad or good.
I ask because I have been considering buying a Ridgeline in 28 Nosler with a carbon barrel. Obliviously a hunting rifle. I have a custom Tikka in 7mm rm that shoots very well for a hunting rig, its just very heavy with a 30" straight barrel. I have made several one shot kills at over 525 yds which is about all I am looking for in a hunting rig.
The reason I ask why I haven't seen any carbon barrels in competition is all of the marketing hype I have read from several manufactures claiming "as good" accuracy as steel barrels.

Don't buy one until you read the CA horror stories.

 

[David Milisock]

in fairness, that's not what they are designed for, anymore than a 30" long 1.25" straight contour belongs on a hunting rifle, they are definitely not suitable for every application but for the individual than wants a 3 pound barrel with a muzzle diameter large enough to provide an optimal shoulder for attachment of a suppressor and deep enough pockets to pay for the cool factor it makes sense, in my experience with them (Proof Research) they have all been very good shooters.

I have a 30" 1.25" straight contour on a 358 Norma, it wasn't built for hunting but I took it out to test projectiles on 2 elk. I won't do that again?

I wonder about durability of the carbon barrel, not just round count but toughness in the field. My fat butt has on occasion has been pretty rough on field rifles.