Carbide neck expanders?

[LVLAaron]

Does anyone make or make to order carbide neck expanding mandrels? I'm looking for something in .222 diameter.

I have some stainless expanders from K&M that come in custom sizes but they require a lot of lube or I'll get brass "build up" on the expander which leads to neck galling and super inconsistent seating pressure. Before someone says "use more lube" - I've got a few thousand Wolf Gold primed cases to prep so I'm trying to use minimal lube.

 

[243Lapua]

Try some HOBO oil as lube.

 

[geezerhood]

When I first started using them, I had hoped to be able to use dry lube with carbide expanders, but it was not to my liking. I ended up having to use something a bit more lubricious than powdered mica. Imperial Wax is what I use now with no build up or excessive tension when pulling the button through the neck. The drawback is the necks need to be cleaned before loading.

 

[LVLAaron]

I'm aware of how "it all works together" - I'm very happy with my competition guns. In this case I'm dealing with primed brass. I don't want to do any neck prep other than a quick chamfer and run an expander through the neck. In my AR's having a uniform inside neck easily gets me from 3/4moa down to under .5 - which is all I want.

That's easy to do with a steel mandrel, and an application of imperial case lube. In this case I dont want my primed cases to have the necks gunked up with lube, I can't rinse them off after the mandrel step.

 

[F Class John]

PMA will make any size carbide expander for a little over $100 each.

http://www.pmatool.com/custom-carbide-mandrel/

 

[KMart]

Get a small piece of 1500 grit wet or dry sand paper. Put a drop of kroil or other penetrating oil on it for lube. Chuck your mandrel up in a drill and polish off the machine ridges on the mandrel. That will go a looong way to preventing brass build up.
I then use either 3 in 1 dry lube or Hornady One shot case lube applied with a Q tip to the inside of the neck. Makes for a slick operation and no need to clean the lube out.

 

[rebs]

I started using graphite to lube the inside case m
necks. works great and no need to clean out the graphite

 

[TrxR]

I started using graphite to lube the inside case m
necks. works great and no need to clean out the graphite

What graphite are you using?

 

[memilanuk]

That's easy to do with a steel mandrel, and an application of imperial case lube. In this case I dont want my primed cases to have the necks gunked up with lube, I can't rinse them off after the mandrel step.

FWIW... I still think it'd work fine with Imperial die wax / case lube.

Years ago in Zediker's 'Handloading for Competition', he mentions putting a little on the finger tip, and kind of 'squiggling' (technical term) it over the case mouth so as to get just a little on the inside chamfer, all the way around. The expander then goes in considerably easier, and there may be just a very light film on the inside of the case neck.

In your situation, if any powder kernels did hang up or stick to the lube inside the neck during the subsequent charging with powder... the following step of seating the bullet will push them down inside the shoulder easily enough, so it's not really something to get too worried about, in my experience.

 

[Dave Way]

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1012768197/imperial-dry-neck-lube-convenience-pak

I’m running a stainless expander and this dry graphite lube made all the difference. Very consistent seating pressures. No powder/primer contamination concerns.

Dave.

 

[rardoin]

I've been using steel K&M expanders for a few years and only use dry lube (Imperial graphite in the ceramic media). No problems with galling or inconsistent sizing pressures. However, I size the neck just about 0.0015" under the mandrel size so I am moving the neck out very little. If you have a bushing die consider minimizing the 'work' the mandrel has to perform so you can use dry lube. I have done this in 6, 6.5 and 7mm cases.

Robin

 

[LVLAaron]

Get a small piece of 1500 grit wet or dry sand paper. Put a drop of kroil or other penetrating oil on it for lube. Chuck your mandrel up in a drill and polish off the machine ridges on the mandrel. That will go a looong way to preventing brass build up.
I then use either 3 in 1 dry lube or Hornady One shot case lube applied with a Q tip to the inside of the neck. Makes for a slick operation and no need to clean the lube out.

Ha. I did exactly that last night. I wanted to take the hard edge out of the mandrel so it's more of a taper. It did make a noticeable improvement. FWIW it's a K&M Mandrel, I used 2000 grit with some light oil, and it's a smoother surface than when K&M delivered it.

 

[LVLAaron]

Lots of good comments here. I do have and use the Imperial dry (graphite) lube. I feel like it's critical for my FTR loads.(308, unrelated to this project)

One thing I've noticed on unfired brass is that the interior of the brass is very rough. I notice this even with premium brass. If I have brand new brass, I will wet tumble it all for 90 minutes in stainless pins, anneal, and find the seating surface to be much smoother and get a very consistent bullet seating "feel" when using dry neck lube.

This is only a small temporary problem. The primed wolf brass is 140 bucks shipped for 1000 rounds. Crazy cheap. I was paying double that per hundred for Sig or Starline 5.56 Brass (both are excellent, I've posted H20 and SD numbers previously) + CCI 450 primers.


Before I overthink myself to death I'll do some testing with various methods once I find what looks like a solid load in the AR.

New brass sized from a gummed up mandrel
New brass from said mandrel with dry lube
New brass from said mandrel with some imperial wax in the necks before seating

 

[rox]

Does anyone make or make to order carbide neck expanding mandrels? I'm looking for something in .222 diameter.

I use a carbide expander mandrel from PMA tool without lube for my .308 loads for Palma competition. There is a little resistance/stickiness on withdrawing the mandrel, but the results are great. The .30 cal expander is .307; not sure of the size of their .22 one, but I'm sure PMA will tell you that. If suitable, the following option might be cheaper than getting a custom one made:

http://www.pmatool.com/22cal-carbide-expanding-mandrel/

 

[Baer45]

FWIW... I still think it'd work fine with Imperial die wax / case lube.

Years ago in Zediker's 'Handloading for Competition', he mentions putting a little on the finger tip, and kind of 'squiggling' (technical term) it over the case mouth so as to get just a little on the inside chamfer, all the way around. The expander then goes in considerably easier, and there may be just a very light film on the inside of the case neck.

In your situation, if any powder kernels did hang up or stick to the lube inside the neck during the subsequent charging with powder... the following step of seating the bullet will push them down inside the shoulder easily enough, so it's not really something to get too worried about, in my experience.

I read the same book and was shocked how well it worked. I just barely touch my finger across the top and it is enough and still don’t have to clean. I also like the idea of buffing your expander smooth. Shoot, you an take off as much or little as you want without having to pay someone else...

 

[Baer45]

Lots of good comments here. I do have and use the Imperial dry (graphite) lube. I feel like it's critical for my FTR loads.(308, unrelated to this project)

One thing I've noticed on unfired brass is that the interior of the brass is very rough. I notice this even with premium brass. If I have brand new brass, I will wet tumble it all for 90 minutes in stainless pins, anneal, and find the seating surface to be much smoother and get a very consistent bullet seating "feel" when using dry neck lube.

This is only a small temporary problem. The primed wolf brass is 140 bucks shipped for 1000 rounds. Crazy cheap. I was paying double that per hundred for Sig or Starline 5.56 Brass (both are excellent, I've posted H20 and SD numbers previously) + CCI 450 primers.


Before I overthink myself to death I'll do some testing with various methods once I find what looks like a solid load in the AR.

New brass sized from a gummed up mandrel
New brass from said mandrel with dry lube
New brass from said mandrel with some imperial wax in the necks before seating

As mentioned above by others, buy “Handloading For Competition”. A wealth of knowledge and this problem is discussed in detail....

 

[snakepit]

Get a small piece of 1500 grit wet or dry sand paper. Put a drop of kroil or other penetrating oil on it for lube. Chuck your mandrel up in a drill and polish off the machine ridges on the mandrel. That will go a looong way to preventing brass build up.
I then use either 3 in 1 dry lube or Hornady One shot case lube applied with a Q tip to the inside of the neck. Makes for a slick operation and no need to clean the lube out.

Thanks for the great information, I followed your instructions and did this to all my mandrels and they came out very shiny and slick. I could feel the difference when using them in my reloading press.

 

[Bamban]

Polish your mandrels and have them melonited. Next best thing to carbide. Station 1 in my 650s are the 21st century expander dies with polished/melonited mandrels. No lube, no build up, mandrels just get shinier over time.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

I use Sinclair. .002 under bullet diameter. Need a little lube every so often though.

 

[Jdne5b]

Polish your mandrels and have them melonited. Next best thing to carbide. Station 1 in my 650s are the 21st century expander dies with polished/melonited mandrels. No lube, no build up, mandrels just get shinier over time.

Who melonites small parts like these at a reasonable price?