I have new Lilja 6.5 Swede on my old Mauser; never had to break new barrel before! The breaking-in instruction that came with barrel says to run brass brush soaked in a cooper solvent after every shot for dozen shoots. I am sort of leery about using metalic brush on hand lapped surface. I wonder if nylon brush can be used instead. After all, it is not the brush that removes cooper by mechanically scrubbing it, but the solvent which chemically reacts with metallic cooper converting it into water soluble salt. So in theory, you don't need any brush at all, once it is soluble you can take it out with a patch?
can I use Nylon brush instead of Brass for breaking-in new barrel?
- Thread starter w123driver
- Start date
Preacher
Gold $$ Contributor
I sure would think hard and long before I ran a brass brush through any of my Lilja barrels,any of my barrels actually) when a nylon brush will do as well with the new solvents. When I use my Warthog solvent I don't even use a nylon brush, just my old faithful Bounty paper towels I've used forever... My new Lawton 7mm SAUM-AI will clean up with 5-6 passes after the 10th shot was fired, and never seen a brush of any kind.....
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
A nylon brush will not clean all the fouling out of the barrel. All the barrel manufacturers recommend brass brushes. If a brass brush will hurt a stainless barrel you better not run a copper jacketed bullet down it or the lands will wear out right now. Poor cleaning rod guides and methods can wear a barrel, but not brass brushes.
Butch
Butch
This is a great topic....and I look to all you experts for opinions.
However, just this week I was on the phone with a well known bullet manufacturer and this exact topic came up. I thought he was going to pat me on the back when I told him that I only use nylon brushes. To my surprise, he stopped me and told me to throw all my nylon brushes away and go back to bronze brushes. He stated the same thing……nylon will not get the fouling out. You need a good tight fitting bronze brush.
He went on and told me the “bronze brush will hurt the bore....." is an old wives tale and absolutely not true. If today’s barrels were that sensitive, we would all be in trouble.
Anyway, I have always believed in Nylon, but I have been convinced to throw them all away and start using GOOD bronze brushes.
Something to note however. I was referring to a .204 and the .20,.19,and .17 calibers are more known for tough carbon fouling than most others.
However, just this week I was on the phone with a well known bullet manufacturer and this exact topic came up. I thought he was going to pat me on the back when I told him that I only use nylon brushes. To my surprise, he stopped me and told me to throw all my nylon brushes away and go back to bronze brushes. He stated the same thing……nylon will not get the fouling out. You need a good tight fitting bronze brush.
He went on and told me the “bronze brush will hurt the bore....." is an old wives tale and absolutely not true. If today’s barrels were that sensitive, we would all be in trouble.
Anyway, I have always believed in Nylon, but I have been convinced to throw them all away and start using GOOD bronze brushes.
Something to note however. I was referring to a .204 and the .20,.19,and .17 calibers are more known for tough carbon fouling than most others.
topwater225: Amen to your thoughts on carbon buildup in the sub-calibers. My 204, Hart barrel) is the worst carbon fouler of all my rifles, from 22, 6mm and 30 cal. Just one of the many reasons I'm not thrilled with them. Powder choice does not seem to matter: I've tried all the recommended ones in search of a reliable, accurate load, including, RL10, Benchmark, Varget, H322, N135, XMR2015, etc. The above comments are not based on conjecture or "I think", but with what I see with my "Hawkeye" borescope, after firing and cleaning. My first, and last sub-caliber.
And, back to the original topic, "boresnakes". A year ago last Nov., a clubmember was shooting several benches down from me, with a Winchester, chambered in 325 WSM, using Win. factory ammo, sighting-in at 200 yds. for an upcoming Elk hunt. His 3 and 5 shot groups were all around 1". Outstanding for a factory rifle & ammo. He was back again this last Nov., and 200 yd. "groups"/clusters were in the 5 to 6" category. He said he mounted another proven scope, etc. and the rifle was so bad, he would have to borrow another one for the hunt. 85 total rds. fired since new. When I asked him how he was cleaning, he said he was "just using a boresnake, like the clerk at Cabelas' told me to do". When I outlined a "different" method using Butchs', Sweets, and lastly JB bore paste, bronze brushes, coated one-piece rod, bore guide, etc., said he'd buy the items and follow the suggestions. A week later, he called me, and related how much "crap", his word, not mine) came out of the barrel. He said it took several hours of cleaning, but when done, he returned to the range, and groups were in the previous 1" range. End of story regarding "Boresnakes".
I like to let the chemicals in a solvent do most of the cleaning and prefer not to use metal brushes at all. I use tetra solvent and apply it to the barrel and let it soak. Then coat a nylon brush in the solvent and work back and forth until it starts frothing up a bit. This really gets the copper out of the barrel. After that a good clean out with action blaster, then light oil and its fine. Dont use harsh solvents like sweets in a stainless barrel, I remember seeing what it did to my factory barrel and that was a chrome moly barrel. I used it to run my lilja in but it was never in the barrel longer than a few minutes. The main problem you may have is with the powder fouling and it may need a small amount of bore paste or similar to remove it. I find copper to come out very easily with tetra and hoppes.
GSPV
A failure to plan is a plan for failure.
I'm a way rookie in the rifle department. I just go with the bore guide, coated rod, etc. that people here and on BRC have recommended.
OTOH, I've probably put in excess of 100,000 rounds down shotgun tubes. There, my friends, is, IMHO, where the bore snake is a good thing. A little Break Free CLP in the bore and on the snake, two passes and you're done.
That doesn't absolve one of other cleaning duties, but it's all you need for the bore. If you shoot an O/U, the BreakFree, boresnake and a rag are all you need for 90% of cleaning. Slush-a-Matic is a little more complicated.
OTOH, I've probably put in excess of 100,000 rounds down shotgun tubes. There, my friends, is, IMHO, where the bore snake is a good thing. A little Break Free CLP in the bore and on the snake, two passes and you're done.
That doesn't absolve one of other cleaning duties, but it's all you need for the bore. If you shoot an O/U, the BreakFree, boresnake and a rag are all you need for 90% of cleaning. Slush-a-Matic is a little more complicated.
I believe the so called damage from bronze brushes arises out of the improper methods in which they are used.
First, not all bronze brushes are created equal, the good ones have no steel in their construction.
Second, since the size is not marked on the brush it is easy to use the wrong brush size without realizing it......it's best to mike the brush to make sure,typically about .012 over bore diameter).
Third, many use the brush past it's useful life......if it's worn... it ain't gonna do it's job.
Fourth, use of a proper bore guide is paramount towards eliminating barrel damage, and the premium guides fit the exact receiver make, chambering, and cleaning rod diameter.
Lastly, never reverse direction once in the bore,and gently let the brush exit the crown and slowly let it re-enter.
Brushes have been in use for decades in the most accurate rifles of the day, and their effectiveness in maintaining that accuracy has been proven.
I, for one, won't abandon a system that works.
First, not all bronze brushes are created equal, the good ones have no steel in their construction.
Second, since the size is not marked on the brush it is easy to use the wrong brush size without realizing it......it's best to mike the brush to make sure,typically about .012 over bore diameter).
Third, many use the brush past it's useful life......if it's worn... it ain't gonna do it's job.
Fourth, use of a proper bore guide is paramount towards eliminating barrel damage, and the premium guides fit the exact receiver make, chambering, and cleaning rod diameter.
Lastly, never reverse direction once in the bore,and gently let the brush exit the crown and slowly let it re-enter.
Brushes have been in use for decades in the most accurate rifles of the day, and their effectiveness in maintaining that accuracy has been proven.
I, for one, won't abandon a system that works.
"... and slowly let it re-enter."
That's the only part of your statement I disagree with!
Pulling a bronze bore brush back over your barrel's crown eventually will have it looking like a Ginsu knife blade.
It's not so much the brush bristles that do the harm as it is the abrasive stuff the brush has picked up.
Bore snakes are fine for in-field use,I've observed match-winning HM Long-range shooters use 'em during matches) but they're no substitute for proper barrel cleaning techniques.
That's the only part of your statement I disagree with!
Pulling a bronze bore brush back over your barrel's crown eventually will have it looking like a Ginsu knife blade.
It's not so much the brush bristles that do the harm as it is the abrasive stuff the brush has picked up.
Bore snakes are fine for in-field use,I've observed match-winning HM Long-range shooters use 'em during matches) but they're no substitute for proper barrel cleaning techniques.
Perhaps I should elaborate on my regimen.
I give my brush a dousing of BBS at each end of the stroke, until after the third pass, I will go several strokes before re-dousing....in any event, I keep the brush dripping wet.
I have not, nor my Smith detected even the slightest crown damage using this cleaning regimen. All I can say is that it works for me.
I give my brush a dousing of BBS at each end of the stroke, until after the third pass, I will go several strokes before re-dousing....in any event, I keep the brush dripping wet.
I have not, nor my Smith detected even the slightest crown damage using this cleaning regimen. All I can say is that it works for me.
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Mr.Clark, where did you get your info? Do you unscrew your brush and withdraw the rod and then screw it back on? I do not break in a barrel as such, but I do use a brass brush, Sweets, homebrew, and JB. I shoot a few thousand rounds a year and haven't witnessed what you speak of.
Also, I have a barrel stub sitting in a jar of Sweets and it has been in there for 6 yrs. Funny thing! It is still as new.
You guys on the forum need to watch what information you decide to act on. Some of the guys on this forum are very active shooters, listen to them.
Butch
Also, I have a barrel stub sitting in a jar of Sweets and it has been in there for 6 yrs. Funny thing! It is still as new.
You guys on the forum need to watch what information you decide to act on. Some of the guys on this forum are very active shooters, listen to them.
Butch
Here is my point of view, for what it's worth:
We have to keep in mind of the strength of the material our barrels are made of. I am speaking from 30+ years of experience in shooting/hunting.....not competition.
But for years I have cleaned with a brush using Sweets and Shooters Choice,Remember the big drama that came out about mixing those two chemicals?), blah, blah, blah....
While coyote hunting, or rabbit hunting and such....more times than not, we have a rifle in the front seat with us out of the case, barrel down into the floor mat,chamber empty of course) ready for action while driving on remote dirt roads.
With all that said, I have never seen crown damage on my rifles. I'm talking literally hundreds of miles of driving rough dirt roads with the muzzle of my rifle facing down into the dirty floor mat of my truck.
I mention this only to show that for MY experience, it proves that our barrels are more durable than you think. I think many talk like their barrels are made of balsa wood; getting ultra sensitive about hurting the crown or damaging the bore with a brush.....
Good grief, if a bronze brush damages a barrel before it's shot out....then maybe your barrel is made of balsa wood.
We have to keep in mind of the strength of the material our barrels are made of. I am speaking from 30+ years of experience in shooting/hunting.....not competition.
But for years I have cleaned with a brush using Sweets and Shooters Choice,Remember the big drama that came out about mixing those two chemicals?), blah, blah, blah....
While coyote hunting, or rabbit hunting and such....more times than not, we have a rifle in the front seat with us out of the case, barrel down into the floor mat,chamber empty of course) ready for action while driving on remote dirt roads.
With all that said, I have never seen crown damage on my rifles. I'm talking literally hundreds of miles of driving rough dirt roads with the muzzle of my rifle facing down into the dirty floor mat of my truck.
I mention this only to show that for MY experience, it proves that our barrels are more durable than you think. I think many talk like their barrels are made of balsa wood; getting ultra sensitive about hurting the crown or damaging the bore with a brush.....
Good grief, if a bronze brush damages a barrel before it's shot out....then maybe your barrel is made of balsa wood.
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