Can I improve my 6MM Remington using the 103 grain to 108 grain Hornady ELD projectiles? I'm posting a PDF of my thoughts on building a rifle on a standard action length. This would recover case capacity that was lost during my tests with a standard 57 MM, 6 MM Remington case and possible allow increased velocity. I have achieved 3275 with the 100, 3250 with a 105 and 3220 with a 107 in the short length action. I aim to build a repeater.
Can I improved my 6MM remington
- Thread starter David Milisock
- Start date
So your pdf shows longest COAL possible due to mag restriction?
I don't believe anyone can state that changing to specific bullet will improve anything since there are so many variables involved and some rifles will not shoot some bullets very well. The only way to know is to test it.
You can increase your odds of success by having a twist that is compatible with the bullet, having a rifle that is properly bedded with a sturdy stock, a match grade barrel, and having a good trigger.
Just curious, but why the focus on increasing velocity? Those are fairly impressive velocities you posted that you have already achieved. How is the accuracy with those bullets at those velocities?
You can increase your odds of success by having a twist that is compatible with the bullet, having a rifle that is properly bedded with a sturdy stock, a match grade barrel, and having a good trigger.
Just curious, but why the focus on increasing velocity? Those are fairly impressive velocities you posted that you have already achieved. How is the accuracy with those bullets at those velocities?
Go 6mm AI, 3350 FPS with 105's
I want to stay with a standard cartridge.
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
The 6mm Remington is blessed with a fairly long neck. The ELD X is a pretty long bullet.
I would through it untill the shank/boattail junction is about 1/2 way down the neck.
I’m not sure what length throat you would need, pretty long.
I would through it untill the shank/boattail junction is about 1/2 way down the neck.
I’m not sure what length throat you would need, pretty long.
A standard length action is long enough to cut a throat long enough. I'm going to start discussions with my smith and make some test empty case bullet placements. I'd like the throat cut just big enough so factory 90 and 100 grain loads will have a chance of working well.
The SAAMI chamber specs compared to my dummy cartridges will provide some answers.
The concept has a few goals, to make a 6MM Remington bolt action repeating rifle that can cycle a case with the ELD-M OR ELD-X 103 to 108 grain weight.
Without case capacity increases minimal velocity with a 1 in 9 twist can be achieved with the 6MM Remington case to stabilize the Sierra 107 grain. I didn't seat the 107's as a single feeder so I gave up some case capacity.
By seating the bullet .235" farther out of the case, I'd regain a significant amount of case capacity. That concept is to increase velocity for two reasons. The first is to obtain a rotational rate with a 1 in 9 twist of 4400 RPS that's 3300 FPS a modest FPS increase over what I've already achieved.
The second reason is to experiment with powder burn rates and charge weights to utilize that .235" of case to attempt to get increased velocity, possibly looking to get to 3400 or 3500 FPS. At 3500 FPS the rotational rate would be 4665 RPS. I want as much speed as I can get without spinning so fast that I have bullets spinning apart. At 3500 FPS the rotation is about 500 RPS faster than a long barreled AR 6 ARC. A max velocity on a 24" bolt gun is 285O FPS w8th a 1 in 8 twist that's 4275 RPS, I'll be running a 28" tube. A 2850 FPS in a 1 in 7.5 twist rotates at 4560 RPS. If I achieve higher velocity my rotational rate may blow up projectiles if I use 1 in 8 or faster twist.
The last practical reason is reaching out in adverse varminting conditions, nothing helps more than speed, add that to higher 6MM bullet weights and a ELD with a high BC. My 75 grain VMAX is good, a extremely solid 400 yard performer and a decent 600 yard performer, but a 103 ELD-X at 3500 should add a bit of performance out to 600+ yards.
The last reason is because I'm bored and it's America.
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Yes this is a factory rifle and the magazine limits the COAL, I'm not inclined to modify this rifle. As I have a few actions laying around.
I didn't answer your accuracy question. The 75 grain VMAX averages 1 1/16" at 300 yards, the Speer 105 and Hornady 100 averaged an inch at 200 yards. The Sierra 107 grouped well for me but it was weird, it grouped at an average of 1 1/4" at 300 yards at 3220 FPS, at 3000 FPS it grouped under an inch but was minimally stabilized. I don’t think it would have held up much farther.
I didn't experiment much with the heavier projectiles just enough to see velocity potential of the case. The heavier used H4831SC.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Once you push current 103-108gr vld bullets past 3100 accuracy falls off exponentially. This is why the secret dashers and brai cartridges do so well and why the extra speed of a bigger cartridge doesnt win. In other words, a regular 6mm rem will push them plenty fast, unless chrono numbers are what matter.
JEFFPPC
Gold $$ Contributor
I agree. Once you go over 3000, your going backwards.Happy spot for my 6BRXs is 2970 to 2990 with 107s.
That's good to hear, all I need is the standard length action and the throat cut for the longer projectiles.
The twist rate may be incompatible as velocity comes up. The 6mm Remington has about 13 grains more case capacity then the Dasher so not exceeding the rotational rate that can be obtained in long barreled bolt rifle 6MM ARC with 1 in 7.5 twist may be a limit. The long ELD may have an imbalance in excess of 4500 RPS. Having the ability to achieve hyper velocity does not mean you have to do it.
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It's a hobby and different shooters have different ideas of how to pursue this hobby. Sounds like an interesting project and best wishes for success. The 6mm is a fine cartridge and it a lot of ways better than the 243 Win, the latter being one of my favorite cartridges.
Me, I don't like to experiment or engage in load development. Instead, I'd rather be doing practical target shooting or hunting. However, there are times I have to do some testing and / or load development to solve a problem or I am forced to try a new component because my go to stuff isn't available.
I do like to read posts like yours seeing if I can pick something up that might help me.
Wow, those are amazing groups at those distances. While the loads seem great, it takes a lot of skill to shoot those kinds of groups at those distances.
I used to go to the range about 3 times a week practicing and working loads. When I was younger in my work I shot 5 or more days a week, only field rifles.
I've had some health issues so I'm (after 2 years) getting back into it. I had a new rifle delivered a month after I got sick so I need to put her through paces, another one to build in my head and 3 older sporterized military rifles to work the bugs out of.
I try to get to the rifle range 2 to 3 days a week, weather permitting. I'm fortunate in that the rifle range in only 11 miles away.
My typical routine is 5 rounds at 100 yards, 5 at 200 yards off a shooting cross stick, all cold barrel shots. This is practical practice for varmint and predator hunting and a lot of fun since I'm continually testing myself and trying to improve my field shooting skills.
At my age after 57 years of working I need to keep busy with something that interests me. The 6mm was my caliber of choice 40 years ago and the recent evolution (last decade or so) of it open up possibilities.
The competition shooters seem to think around 3000 FPS is a velocity limit for the ELD projectiles and maybe it is. However they don't know why. Is it the revolution rate? Is it an aerodynamic issue? Who knows! What I do know is that they are working with a case with insufficient capacity to test it.
What I also know are real world practical shooting distances (at high percentage rates of 1 shot hits) are far shooter than discussed and hyper velocity improves the range and the hits. Imalso know that I'm interested and after some reasonable time, twomor three years, if it doesn't work out I'll spin the barrel off and do something else. This is a work in progress and I'd never do that with a completed project. They all shoot too well.
Seating the bullets out further will not increase capacity enough to give you a significant increase in velocity. If you throat to allow the bullet with the longest bearing surface to be seated just ahead of the neck/shoulder juncture, the rifle will still be usable with lighter bullets, should you wish to use them. Using an 8 twist barrel will allow you to stabilize most any 6mm bullet, at any reasonable speed.
Chambering to the 6mmAI won't do a heck of a lot either, as far as velocity is concerned; maybe 50 fps or so. WH
Chambering to the 6mmAI won't do a heck of a lot either, as far as velocity is concerned; maybe 50 fps or so. WH
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