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can I have my Savage 12 F TR .223 rechambered to shoot 77 - 90 gr bullets

Linko

Silver $$ Contributor
I have a Savage model 12 F TR target rifle chambered in .223, can I have this barrel rechambered to accurately shoot SMK 77's and the longer Bergers etc 80, 80.5 90 grain bullets. I would like to shoot heaver bullet than the originally chambered barrel accepts. I am target shooting 200 yds and want to shoot longer ranges, like 500 yds.
 
I believe you have a 7 twist barrel... if so all you need to do is move the free bore out for the longer bullets ...hopefully a gunsmith in your area would have a uni-throater ...takes no time at all. Or you could do a over all chamber job.

Vince
 
The 77 shoots great from 2.260". The twist rate is key factor as already mentioned above. From there it isn't the whole chamber as much as throwing to allow you to seat bullets beyond 2.260. What twist rate is your barrel? We'll start there
 
gstaylorg said:
The caveat to that is whether the shorter 77s will shoot well in a rifle throated for 90s. With the 77s, it will be waaaaaaaayyyyyy off the lands. It might shoot reasonably well. Then again, it might not. If you have it throated to better accommodate the 80-somethings, it will still be a little long for 77s and you won't be able to shoot the 90s at all. There's really no "compromise" throat that will be optimal for that wide a range of bullet lengths.
That is the deal. I have a 1:7 barrel and there is no comprimise. I thought I might be able to load the 77's long and enough room for the 80-90's.

So the next question is, how will the 80-90's shoot at 200 yds. My go to range is 200yds.

Thanks for the insight.
 
Ahh, in that case a wylde chamber will do it! The 77s touch at ~2.450" and will handle 80s and 90s without a problem, though you might want a little more for the 90s. For 200y, even the 53gr should be good. I'd recommend the 80+ for over 300y.

-Mac
 
Mr. Linko, I think I can give you a little more difinitive info and hopefully it helps you decide what to do.

With the .169 freebore reamer (which I have also) you should have no problem shooting the 80 smk's which are the shortest of the 80's and what I shoot in my rifle.

I just checked some 69 smk's in my chamber and there is roughly .081 of the bullet bearing surface in the neck wich is almost exactly the same as my 80 smk's (.083). The 80 vld's had about .115 of bearing surface in the neck. These measurements are all touching the rifling. My load shooting the 80smk's, about .025 off the rifle obviously has more bullet in the case. My guess is that a 77 mk will be in the same ball park. Also if I remember correctly the 75 amaxes are more similar to the 80 vld's than the smk's. If i had some i would check them.

I have no problem with accuracy in my gun with only .110 of bullet bearing surface in the neck, it holds the x ring in verticle at 600. My last two 10 shot groups at 300 were just a little under 1.250 inches of verticle. I wouldnt doubt This load could do better with a better shooter.

Out of curiosity I just tried a 53 gr. Vmax and there was about .065 bearing surface in the neck with the bullet touching the lands.

So with my experience, it is my opinion that you can have a chamber that will accommodate the 77's, 80's, and 90's and still shoot them accurately. If nothing else I was at least able to give you some hard facts to help you make a decision.
 
I own a savage f/tr 223 with a 7.7 twist and won alot of matches shooting the berger 82 bt at sac valley a few years ago when I shot it. I used it at matches out to 1k and that was factory chamber so not sure what your chamber is. Have you measured it ?
 
Well I certinly appreciate the details you all are providing. I am trying to modify my rifle, once and do it correctly.

My range has 200 yds weekly and 500 yds 3 days a month. So 500 yds would become my outer limit for the moment.

As you all explain more of the details, it seems the question I should have asked is what is the best chamber for accurate use of 80, 80.5 and 90 grain bullets. The 77's don't seem to really have much value to me at this point. The cost difference isn't much between them.

If what I say is true, which reamer is the right one for me?

(Also gstaylorg, what do you mean when you say "But shooting the 90s comes along with a necessity for very careful and meticulous reloading practices") what do 90's add to the reloading process?
 
mattt said:
I own a savage f/tr 223 with a 7.7 twist and won alot of matches shooting the berger 82 bt at sac valley a few years ago when I shot it. I used it at matches out to 1k and that was factory chamber so not sure what your chamber is. Have you measured it ?

No I have not measured it yet. But your experience also makes my realize the 80's might be my go to bullet range for this rifle.
 
The last time I shot my old savage 223 at a match at 300 it cleaned with all x count. Not a reg match so move on to 500. ;)
 
Linko said:
As you all explain more of the details, it seems the question I should have asked is what is the best chamber for accurate use of 80, 80.5 and 90 grain bullets. The 77's don't seem to really have much value to me at this point. The cost difference isn't much between them.

If what I say is true, which reamer is the right one for me?

.169 freebore
 
Still reading other posts.

This is what I believe I have learned.

1. no chamber is good for all three weight/length bullets 77, 80's and 90's. most likely there are 3 rifles/chambers that would be required to shoot these 3 weights accurately.

2. 90's are a special case and really need a rifle setup for just them. So this is really not the best for a relatively new shooter, not competing.

3. the 80gr range of bullets (80, 80.5 etc) will work best for the 200 - 600 range of shooting. For shooting 200 and 500 at my local range, having a rifle chamber setup for these bullets will give me the most to work with and lot's of room to improve both my loading skills and shooting skills.

So if this is all true I need to talk to a reamer expert to find the best reamer for my 1:7 30" savage single round .223 target bolt action rifle.


linko
 
Linko said:
Still reading other posts.

This is what I believe I have learned.

1. no chamber is good for all three weight/length bullets 77, 80's and 90's. most likely there are 3 rifles/chambers that would be required to shoot these 3 weights accurately


linko

Yes if you can't touch the lands you might not be able to get the most accuracy out if that rifke. You will be able to touch the lands with a .169 freebore and still have plenty of bullet in the case, You won't have problem. with a .169 freebore you won't have a problem with the 80's and when the time comes you want to shoot the 90's you will have the freebore needed to get the amount of powder required to get them to 2850 fps.

What I'm saying comes from first hand experience not what I've read on the internet. Do a .169 and you will have the 77's, 80's and 90 covered. On the plus side with the extra room with the 80's you will be able to get up to the upper node with out stressing your brass.
 
gstaylorg said:
My 90 VLD load COAL is 2.636" with the bullets seated at ~.015" off the lands. This is in a .223 Rem chamber cut with a reamer set up for the 90s with .169" freebore. An even longer freebore (.200" or more) would probably be better, as the 90s are seated with the boattail only very slightly above the neck/shoulder junction in my chamber. If the 77s are touching at 2.450", they would be jumping close to .200" in a chamber optimized for the 90s. It is possible that might work reasonably well, but it's also possible it might not. Shortening the freebore to accomodate the shorter bullet is guaranteed to give you problem with the 90s, as a lot of bearing surface is going to be below the bottom of the neck, which is not desirable. If you want to shoot the 90 gr bullets in .223, you're much better off getting a chamber specifically set up for them and hope the 77s/75s will shoot well also. Going the other direction as a compromise for the shorter bullets is not likely to be an approach that will work well for the longer bullets.

Alternatively, the Berger 80.5 fullbore is a great bullet and has the shortest base-to-ogive dimension of the Berger 80-something offerings. It shouldn't be too difficult to have a chamber cut to shoot both 77s and one of the 80-somethings like the 80.5 optimally. Another popular choice would be the Hornady 80 gr Amax. Based on the base-to-ogive measurements of the 77 SMK and the 80 gr bullets, a chambered for the 80s should still allow you to seat the 77s at a reasonable depth relative to the lands. Unfortunately, the 90s are just too long to have a compromise chamber cut. You pretty much want to have it cut for the longest bullet you intend to load.

As far as accuracy, I have found the 80.5s and 90 VLDs to shoot with very good precision. I routinely shoot the 80.5s in 300 yd F-Class matches, and the 90s at 600 and 1000 yd. They shoot more than well enough to be competitive. Performance-wise, the 80.5s start to fall behind a typical .308 shooting 185s past about 300 yd in windy conditions. At 600 yd, the typical 80 gr .223 load will experience more wind drift than even a .308 shooting only 155s. You certainly can shoot 80s at that distance, the potential for precision/accuracy is definitely there, and many have done it successfully. But you'll be giving up more and more to .308s as the distance increases. On the other hand, the 90s will keep up with most .308s shooting 185s (or less) out to 1000 yd. But shooting the 90s comes along with a necessity for very careful and meticulous reloading practices, along with a rifle setup that may be very limited as to what you can shoot out of it.

If you're fairly certain your upper range limit in the near future is 200 yd, I'd have the rifle throated for the 80s, which will probably also be fine for the 77s. Unless you're routinely shooting well past 300 yd, you won't be giving up much, if anything, shooting those. In addition, the 90s won't really be that much additional benefit unless it's typically very windy where you shoot.

Excellent Post!
 
Your bone stock savage 12 F/TR 223 doesn't need to be rechambered to shoot 80,80.5 ,77 . Thats what it is made for.Did you buy one with a shot out barrel or did someone tell you it wont shoot what you want it too ??? confused here :o
 
mattt said:
Your bone stock savage 12 F/TR 223 doesn't need to be rechambered to shoot 80,80.5 ,77 . Thats what it is made for.Did you buy one with a shot out barrel or did someone tell you it wont shoot what you want it too ??? confused here :o

Still digesting the wealth of information the members of this site are willing to share with a novice! Thank you all.

To answer your question. I searched and asked if the chamber of my rifle could chamber 77, 80, and 80.5 bullets. Didn't get a definitive answer, hence why I started this post. Learned a lot. I ordered a box of 80 bergers this week to do some chamber measurements with. Based on the great info the other members just posted above. A little work will really optimise my rifle. And no, my barrel is not shot out. Relativly new, 500 600 rounds.

I will contact pacific and get some additional advice. Then settle on a gunsmith to do the work.
 
If your twist rate is correct buy a unithroater kit and do it yourself and you get to keep the tool for future project
 
Glad you are trying the 80 bergers.Here is what will work with that rifle load the 80 bergers go out and shoot them If they dont shoot it is you not your savage, Dont waste any more money on the Chamber. ;D I have come across a few savage 12 308 f/tr that didnt shoot and a few f/class ones but never a savage 12 f/tr 223. Good luck dont over think this.
 

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