Camp Perry SR 4x scope

[js2013]

Anyone know which XTC service rifle 4x scopes are the hot ticket at Perry this year?

 

[wolley]

Its still shaking out. So far the two that have risen to the top are a Nightforce fixed 4X with fixed 200yd parallax that was built specifically for SR competition. $1950
And a March 1-4.5X with parallax adjustment. Also built specifically for SR competition. Street price around $2250.
So far the Leupold offerings have been hit or miss on whether they will withstand the knob turning a Service Rifle shooter does.
The Viper PST has been showing some promise.
Valdada is supposedly coming out with an offering that may be good.

 

[butchlambert]

The top shooters were the Texas Team.

P100 - Keith, winner, Buddy 3rd
Alice Bull ( P100 and Individual Match) - Keith, winner, Buddy, 2nd
Pietroforte Trophy (Individual and Team aggregate) - Keith, winner and set a new National record, old record was set in 2012, Buddy is 4th
National Record, Senior P100 - Buddy
National Record, Elihu Root - Lee
Elihu Root Trophy, Lee, Keith, and Buddy. This is the 6 high civilians in the team match, TX had 3 of the 6 spots, Lee the high man, Keith was 2nd
Civilian Team, Soldier of Marathon Trophy, set a new National Civilian record for the team match. Beat the record that was established in 1990 by 32 points.
Overall Aggregate across 4 days of shooting - Keith, 3rd
Overall Aggregate across 4 days of shooting - Samantha Holt, 2nd place

They did an incredible job this year. 4 of the 6 used the March 1-4.5X SR scope.

 

[r bose]

Guess I won't ever be able to wrap my head around scoped service rifles. Sucks that the scope (march or nightforce) cost twice much as the entire rifle plus some. John Hollinger at White Oak has 2 models made by Leupold $450 and $650 that show promise. I'm just not ready to spend, mount and all, 2100 or 2400 dollars. That being said, ALL of the top shooters use them. If you're gonna be competitive you better get one.

 

[butchlambert]

Guess I won't ever be able to wrap my head around scoped service rifles. Sucks that the scope (march or nightforce) cost twice much as the entire rifle plus some. John Hollinger at White Oak has 2 models made by Leupold $450 and $650 that show promise. I'm just not ready to spend, mount and all, 2100 or 2400 dollars. That being said, ALL of the top shooters use them. If you're gonna be competitive you better get one.

Heard the same type things in BR. A $2300 scope is small for a serious shooter. If you are serious you will know how much you spend on bullets, powder, primers, traveling expenses, and gunsmith fees over the past 5 years. I doubt that you can buy a competitive AR for $1200, you can't. A $1200 AR and a $450 scope will not compete with the big dogs.
I understand the concern with cost, but have you checked the cost of a FClass, Br, LR rifle, a trap gun, or a skeet gun? The AR is cheap in comparison.
By thev way John Holliger is a great guy with great products. He did the last 4 AR upper builds for me.

 

[butchlambert]

Guess I won't ever be able to wrap my head around scoped service rifles. Sucks that the scope (march or nightforce) cost twice much as the entire rifle plus some. John Hollinger at White Oak has 2 models made by Leupold $450 and $650 that show promise. I'm just not ready to spend, mount and all, 2100 or 2400 dollars. That being said, ALL of the top shooters use them. If you're gonna be competitive you better get one.

r bose, I may have come off a little grumpy and I'll apologize for that. My message stands though.

 

[js2013]

Its still shaking out. So far the two that have risen to the top are a Nightforce fixed 4X with fixed 200yd parallax that was built specifically for SR competition. $1950
And a March 1-4.5X with parallax adjustment. Also built specifically for SR competition. Street price around $2250.
So far the Leupold offerings have been hit or miss on whether they will withstand the knob turning a Service Rifle shooter does.
The Viper PST has been showing some promise.
Valdada is supposedly coming out with an offering that may be good.

 

[js2013]

And I thought good iron match sights were expensive
I'm guessing someone will build a straight 4x that tracks for a fraction at a Much smaller price, then again the number of HP shooters/market probably is so small the manufactures might not bother.

 

[1shot]

Poor glass is worse than no glass. If you take your discipline seriously, buy once, cry once.

Lloyd

 

[FatBoy]

Thread jack follows, skip warning.


The issue is SR was a gateway. A guy could come in and be competitive, especially a local events, for about $1500, coated, mat, etc. All in. That ship just sailed.

Honestly, I don't care for scopes SRs, but if they were going to "do it right" and train like an issued rifle they'd force shooters to use an ACOG, ELCAN, 4x magnifier on a red dot, etc.

 

[Beau]

I doubt that you can buy a competitive AR for $1200, you can't.

That's not true. I recall people winning with off the shelf BM NM rifles and I recall one kid winning with a Colt chrome lined barrel. It doesn't take much to screw together a rifle capable of winning for under $1,000.

Marty Dabney was using a Burris scope.

 

[butchlambert]

That's not true. I recall people winning with off the shelf BM NM rifles and I recall one kid winning with a Colt chrome lined barrel. It doesn't take much to screw together a rifle capable of winning for under $1,000.

Marty Dabney was using a Burris scope.

When did they do this? Tom Krawzokauf used a Bushnell.

 

[Beau]

When did they do this? Tom Krawzokauf used a Bushnell.

I don't recall the names.
But, for another example, Holliger uses his Wilson barrels. What are those? About $230?

 

[js2013]

I remember a marine winning the SR title at Perry with a $200-ish Wilson barrel years ago. Still makes me smile

 

[butchlambert]

I remember a marine winning the SR title at Perry with a $200-ish Wilson barrel years ago. Still makes me smile

Yup, years ago. I'll ask John this week which barrel that he uses. He puts Wilson, Kreiger, and Shilen barrels on his customers rifles. All four that he built for me had Shilens. I do believe the shooter's ability is a greater part of the picture in SR.
You know in the old days, I kicked butt on the street with my VW Beetle.

 

[r bose]

Thread jack follows, skip warning.


The issue is SR was a gateway. A guy could come in and be competitive, especially a local events, for about $1500, coated, mat, etc. All in. That ship just sailed.

Honestly, I don't care for scopes SRs, but if they were going to "do it right" and train like an issued rifle they'd force shooters to use an ACOG, ELCAN, 4x magnifier on a red dot, etc.

Totally agree here. Most of my friends started with garands or/and M1A's before moving to other disciplines. Some of us continued XTC and then moved to AR's. My SR is a Rock River lower w/ their 2 stage trigger and a Hollinger upper.....nothing fancy. Those 2 pieces can be bought for $1200 today and in the right hands will win national matches. I've never touched/adjusted the trigger on my lower. Recently, I replaced my worn out barrel with a Shilen from John only because he was out of the Wilsons that was originally on the upper. Shot a 482/500 last weekend with it and frankly, had it not start raining on me and getting very dark during slow prone I think I could have done better.

Point is, as said above, we need a gateway sport for shooters to get involved in. $3500 service rifles is not a good answer for gateway, recreational shooters or juniors

 

[butchlambert]

Totally agree here. Most of my friends started with garands or/and M1A's before moving to other disciplines. Some of us continued XTC and then moved to AR's. My SR is a Rock River lower w/ their 2 stage trigger and a Hollinger upper.....nothing fancy. Those 2 pieces can be bought for $1200 today and in the right hands will win national matches. I've never touched/adjusted the trigger on my lower. Recently, I replaced my worn out barrel with a Shilen from John only because he was out of the Wilsons that was originally on the upper. Shot a 482/500 last weekend with it and frankly, had it not start raining on me and getting very dark during slow prone I think I could have done better.

Point is, as said above, we need a gateway sport for shooters to get involved in. $3500 service rifles is not a good answer for gateway, recreational shooters or juniors

I do understand what you are saying. Name any competitive sport that this isn't an issue. I guess they have some claiming races in horse racing. John's upper with pinned iron sights is $780+shipping. RRA lower complete is $410. All you need now is a few magazines. A mat is $50., Coat is $250., and $500 for a spotting scope and stand. You will shoot 3,000-10,000 rounds a year to keep up with the other guys. I figure $.46 a round plus your initial investment in brass.
Now if you shoot for comradarie and fun you can get out a little cheaper. Of course if you travel you have fuel, food, and possibly a hotel room.
Am I wrong? I know a few of the winners and good competitors. The components that I listed above might be competitive in a club match in the right hands, but not in serious competition.
I don't have an answer for the money problem. A competitive air rifle is $5000.

 

[XTR]

The gateway discussion is kind of a red herring argument today because participation in sling and irons shooting of all types is declining, and has been for a while now. That is not due to scoped ARs. This is a move by the NRA/CMP to get more people interested again. I hope it works.

While it is daunting to plunk down $2K for a scope; and I know, I've got four (4) NF scopes for my F class rifles. On the other hand I can promise you I have spent more on little yellow Berger boxes than I have on NF optics, and with the way availability runs today if you want to be competitive you better be ready to plunk down $1500 for bullets and powder when it's available or you can't play later when it's not, and I've never been able to sell used bullets and get back 80% of my investment.

You can still start with a much cheaper Leupy it just may not hold up to the cranking.

 

[r bose]

Agree with all the posts above. Some of the other shooting disciplines have went crazy in cost. Had someone tell me he just got into shooting F Open last year and had spent over $15,000 so far. I nearly died.

I don't think XTC was ever an equipment race like other sports. I buy bullets from SPS, 77's and 80's for 12 cents each when available. Never bought 223 brass, my local range is littered with once fired brass. I can make match quality ammo for 22 cents each. Everyone I've introduced to XTC, young and old, has heard me say you can't buy your way to a master classification. Only way to get there is practice.

I see myself with a scoped rifle eventually. I'm getting old. Hopefully someone will come out with a "working class" version.

 

[aloreman]

Rra sells comp ready ar15s for 950 dollars. Made high master with one.