So Im thinking of turning my motorbike into a new rifle. I would like some ideas on a possible caliber, I have done some searching without coming up with much, I can remember reading a couple of articles about rifles in the past but now i cant find them. Im going to build my first custom rifle. I want a single shot action with a long straight 1.2 inch barrel. It will be sort of a varmint style rifle. I am after something that would be capable of driving a large projectile at 3900+ and still be verry accurate. Im not worried if i only get 800 rounds out of a barrel. I have looked into a 6mm284 but now I have started thinking would i be able to get something bigger that will extend my range and also hitting power. Sorry if the info is a bit vague but any iseas would be good
caliber surgestions
- Thread starter muffo
- Start date
You are not going to find anything that I know of that will fit what you want. Large projectile at 3900+ fps in a shoulder fired rifle just don't happen. 6.5-284 is not what I would call a large projectile and you sure are not going to get any bullet going over 3900 fps out of one.
You did not state what you want to do with such a rifle. If you want something to shoot long range 1000 yards or so I would take a look at something like the 338 Lapua Mag with about a 30" barrel in a Savage target action.
You did not state what you want to do with such a rifle. If you want something to shoot long range 1000 yards or so I would take a look at something like the 338 Lapua Mag with about a 30" barrel in a Savage target action.
Not sure on any big rifles that will fire a projectile over 3900. What is your idea of big? Is this a target rifle or strictly for varmints? 6.5-284 with Berger 140 VLDs will reack way out there, 1000 yds + on varmints or paper and can double as a big game rifle assuming you either set up in a stand or can pack a big heavy rifle around without it beating you up. As far as bigger rifles, .284 or .338 would be my suggestion. They have the weight and high BC's to reach way out there and touch something without making you flinch when you fire it (I'm not talking recoil here, when you know you just sent 3-4$ down range each time you pull the trigger you will flinch, trust me). Instead of going faster get something that will push high BC bullets at moderate velocities IMHO. 6mm 115 gr bullets make awesome varmint rounds pushed at 3050 or so, I'm currently building a rifle that will fire 90gr .224 (G7 BC of .281 which is higher than the 115gr .243) bullets at 3200 fps that will be a varmints nightmare.
I am not sure of your actual intentions, but if you want a long range varmint rifle, look to a 300WSM Varminter.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/09/franklins-4000fps-30-cal-varminter-a-hit-with-hunters/
These push a 125gr .308 caliber Nosler Ballistic Tip to apprx. 4000fps. They will do so very accurately as well. Or you can go bigger, as forum member TheBlueEyedBear has with a 30-338 Lapua and gain a few hundred fps.
These are .30cal rifles using light bullets in a 1-16" twist at very high speed. The bullets ar heavier than anything you will find in 6mm and are nearly as heavy as the bigger 6.5mm's and are being pushed faster than you will likely ever reach with a 6mm or 6.5mm of similar weight.
If you want a large caliber bullet with a bit of weight at ultra high velocity, this is the way to go.
The 6-284 will hit 3900 with a long enough barrel, but with light bullets in the 58gr range.
Kenny
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/09/franklins-4000fps-30-cal-varminter-a-hit-with-hunters/
These push a 125gr .308 caliber Nosler Ballistic Tip to apprx. 4000fps. They will do so very accurately as well. Or you can go bigger, as forum member TheBlueEyedBear has with a 30-338 Lapua and gain a few hundred fps.
These are .30cal rifles using light bullets in a 1-16" twist at very high speed. The bullets ar heavier than anything you will find in 6mm and are nearly as heavy as the bigger 6.5mm's and are being pushed faster than you will likely ever reach with a 6mm or 6.5mm of similar weight.
If you want a large caliber bullet with a bit of weight at ultra high velocity, this is the way to go.
The 6-284 will hit 3900 with a long enough barrel, but with light bullets in the 58gr range.
Kenny
Why not go with a 50BMG using sabots bringing the caliber to 30 cal and they would be pushing 5000 fps plus with fair accuracy.
Basicly I want to build a bench rest rifle that will be used as a long range varmint rifle and a medium range 500-800 spotlighting rifle off the back of a pickup that is set up almost as a portable bench rest, I plan to make it heavy but not like a rail gun. I looked at a 30-338 and thats something like I would want but I wasnt sure if i could get the velosity from it and also wasnt sure of accuracy potential. I am looking at probably either a lawton or stiller action with a 30 inch barrel. cheers for the adviseKenny474 said:
With your intended goals, you don't need nearly the speed you are going after. You can get excellent results and accomplish all your goals and then some with a lot less velocity, less barrel wear, and a lot less recoil.
A 7mmWSM will do all you want and with very good accuracy. The 180VLD's have a scary high BC and will be accurate past 1000yds as well as take any varmint you can find at that distance as well. I know of guys who have made kills on antelope and deer at 800+yds with a 7mm Rem Mag, so the WSM will surely do the same with a 30" barrel to at least 1000yds.
3900fps is a lot faster than you think once you get into the .30 caliber. Even in the 6.5 and 7mm it's almost unheard of. For true bench rest accuracy at 1000yds you need a very high BC bullet, and those usually have some weight to them as well and are not going to be pushed to 3900fps. In reality, I doubt you will get anything heavier than a 125gr Nosler BT to 3900fps without running it really hard and bordering on pressure issues. You may get a 155gr Berger to 3700fps in the 30-338 Lapua, but even that is lacking BC to the bigger bullets.
The reason I am stressing BC is that it is a constant. The bullet will not lose BC until it impacts the target and is deformed. It will have a lower "acting" BC as it slows down, but that is a bit different and the bullet still has the same aerodynamic properties.
Velocity on the other hand, diminishes as soon as the bullet stops accelerating. It doesn't matter how fast it gets launched, a low BC bullet will still lose speed just as fast if not faster than a high BC bullet. That is why it is so important to use a high BC bullet at long range, the BC will have more effect on reducing drop and wind drift than high velocity will.
You can achieve accuracy with the lighter bullets, but the wind will push them around a lot more than a high BC bullet, so any mistakes you make will be much more noticeable and much larger on target than with a high BC bullet.
I'm not trying to talk you out of anything here either. I just want to let you know of these things so you can have another angle to think about. You don't need near 3900fps in a big caliber to get long range accuracy. You can achieve that easily with a high BC bullet in a 7mmWSM or 300WSM, or even a .284 or .300WinMag. To be honest, a .243AI or 6mmAI will make it to 1000yds accurately with 107gr SMK's easily and with plenty of speed.
And this is the most important thing I can stress to you, and also the hardest for most everybody to believe: hitting power is over-rated and unimportant in 90% of all hunting that most anyone will do. PERIOD. You do not need hitting power on deer, or any kind of varmint, or most anything else. You need hitting power when staring down a cape buffalo at 25yds and if it doesn't drop when you pull the trigger, you get mauled and die. Other than that, shot placement is 10,000 times more important than what you hit the animal with. You can, and many have, killed deer with a .22 Hornet. There is absolutely no real hitting power there. They are tiny bullets, not near heavy enough to have any real hitting power. But the deer die, and they die on the spot if hit properly. I have witnessed deer hit with a .25-06 that drop as though struck by lightning, and have seen deer run a bit after being hit with my .500S&W Mag right behind the front shoulder. And I know my .500 hits harder than a .25-06.
Shot placement is key and always has been, and it always will be as long as we use standard rifle cartridges to hunt with.
Before you go out and buy some monster mag because it shoots at hyper velocity, consider that most all the current long range records are held by rounds that shoot a high BC bullet at moderate velocity. I don't know of any that are held by a round that clocks 3900fps.
BC is really hard to make up for with velocity.
Kenny
A 7mmWSM will do all you want and with very good accuracy. The 180VLD's have a scary high BC and will be accurate past 1000yds as well as take any varmint you can find at that distance as well. I know of guys who have made kills on antelope and deer at 800+yds with a 7mm Rem Mag, so the WSM will surely do the same with a 30" barrel to at least 1000yds.
3900fps is a lot faster than you think once you get into the .30 caliber. Even in the 6.5 and 7mm it's almost unheard of. For true bench rest accuracy at 1000yds you need a very high BC bullet, and those usually have some weight to them as well and are not going to be pushed to 3900fps. In reality, I doubt you will get anything heavier than a 125gr Nosler BT to 3900fps without running it really hard and bordering on pressure issues. You may get a 155gr Berger to 3700fps in the 30-338 Lapua, but even that is lacking BC to the bigger bullets.
The reason I am stressing BC is that it is a constant. The bullet will not lose BC until it impacts the target and is deformed. It will have a lower "acting" BC as it slows down, but that is a bit different and the bullet still has the same aerodynamic properties.
Velocity on the other hand, diminishes as soon as the bullet stops accelerating. It doesn't matter how fast it gets launched, a low BC bullet will still lose speed just as fast if not faster than a high BC bullet. That is why it is so important to use a high BC bullet at long range, the BC will have more effect on reducing drop and wind drift than high velocity will.
You can achieve accuracy with the lighter bullets, but the wind will push them around a lot more than a high BC bullet, so any mistakes you make will be much more noticeable and much larger on target than with a high BC bullet.
I'm not trying to talk you out of anything here either. I just want to let you know of these things so you can have another angle to think about. You don't need near 3900fps in a big caliber to get long range accuracy. You can achieve that easily with a high BC bullet in a 7mmWSM or 300WSM, or even a .284 or .300WinMag. To be honest, a .243AI or 6mmAI will make it to 1000yds accurately with 107gr SMK's easily and with plenty of speed.
And this is the most important thing I can stress to you, and also the hardest for most everybody to believe: hitting power is over-rated and unimportant in 90% of all hunting that most anyone will do. PERIOD. You do not need hitting power on deer, or any kind of varmint, or most anything else. You need hitting power when staring down a cape buffalo at 25yds and if it doesn't drop when you pull the trigger, you get mauled and die. Other than that, shot placement is 10,000 times more important than what you hit the animal with. You can, and many have, killed deer with a .22 Hornet. There is absolutely no real hitting power there. They are tiny bullets, not near heavy enough to have any real hitting power. But the deer die, and they die on the spot if hit properly. I have witnessed deer hit with a .25-06 that drop as though struck by lightning, and have seen deer run a bit after being hit with my .500S&W Mag right behind the front shoulder. And I know my .500 hits harder than a .25-06.
Shot placement is key and always has been, and it always will be as long as we use standard rifle cartridges to hunt with.
Before you go out and buy some monster mag because it shoots at hyper velocity, consider that most all the current long range records are held by rounds that shoot a high BC bullet at moderate velocity. I don't know of any that are held by a round that clocks 3900fps.
BC is really hard to make up for with velocity.
Kenny
REastman said:I think you should try necking a 50BMG down to a 30 cal. Put a 50 inch barrel on it. Please let us know what kind of velocities you get out of it once you finish.
If we want to go that route, why not neck down the 20mm Vulcan to .338 to shoot the new A-Max's and run that in a 50" barrel. Now were talking! ;D
Or if you want to go the easy route, Anzio IronWorks already has a 20mm Vulcan necked down to .50cal and are releasing a 900gr high BC bullet soon.
In all seriousness, if you really want big speed and a heavy bullet, this is seriously the way to go. Nothing else will give you what is possible with the Anzio 20/50. It will fire a 750gr bullet at 3600fps. Nothing else is going to come close. Yes, it is a bit large, but it will give you exactly what you are looking for.
http://www.anzioironworks.com/Anzio-20-50.html
If you want something a bit smaller, they make a .338 Lapua take-down rifle that is guaranteed to shoot .39MOA with the chrome-moly match barrel.
http://www.anzioironworks.com/338-Lapua-Take-down-rifle.htm
If you are serious about wanting a big boomer, these guys are really worth looking at. They make high quality stuff and have decent prices for what they offer, and most of their rifles, if not all, have an accuracy guarantee. And they will all accomplish the reach and accuracy you are looking for.
They also make a rifle mount to go on a 5th wheel hitch. Scroll down at this link, almost at the bottom of the page: http://www.anzioironworks.com/20MM-TAKE-DOWN-RIFLE.htm
Kenny
Kenny474 said:
There are 2 main reasons for the velocity requirement, firstly and mainy just because i want it, If im going to spend a large some of money and time it might as well be for something i really like the idea of. I have a thing for fast moving small calibers. I currently use a 223wssm and love it but would like to extend the range. the main goal main use i will use it shooting at night shooting kangaroos a range finder doesnt work and because of my permit they have to be head shot so flat shooting inside 800 is a priority. It will never be shot in a competition shooting past that distance will ony be a bit of fun because i made a 1200 yard range at my place and so far havent even used it. Im not after a monster of a big caliver of a rifle that goes fast, just something that will be able to drive say between 120 and 180 grain rounds at close to 4000. The 300 varminter that you posted the link to is something that I will look into. Out of those 2 options with light projectiles which would you think would lend its self to decent accuracy. Im not expecting to build a record setting rifle, as long as its more accuracy. Il be happy as long as itl shoot under half minute of angle and after that its more about braging rights with my mates
OK, that clears things up a lot! I was under the impression you wanted to shoot benchrest as well. For your use, I can understand the need for velocity.
The 300WSM Varminter will push a 125gr Nosler BT to about 4000fps. I don't think you will get anything much larger (bullet weight) going that fast due to diminishing returns after a certain amount of powder in a given bore diameter. You are very near the peak with a 125gr at 4Kfps, and if it will work, I suggest sticking with that or accepting a bit less velocity. You will never get a 180gr bullet to 4Kfps, and I have doubts about 150's at 4Kfps as well. I think you may get a 150gr Berger to 3700fps in a bigger round, maybe slightly more, but that's about tops I would think. You are also getting close to bullet break-up, as the heavier bullets will need a bit faster twist and they likely won't handle the RPM's at that speed. You are close to the edge at 4000fps with the 125's, and pushing it harder may cause blow-ups.
The 300WSM varminter has been very accurate from what I have been told from those I have spoken with, as I have been researching it due to a possible build I may undertake for my bro-in-law. It should do exactly what you want without issue and better barrel life than the larger rounds, which will really cook up a barrel in short order. I can't see a 30-338 going much over 800 rounds, so it's life will be severely limited. The WSM will likely go 1200-1500 if you take it easy and don't get it hot.
Good luck, sounds like fun.
Kenny
The 300WSM Varminter will push a 125gr Nosler BT to about 4000fps. I don't think you will get anything much larger (bullet weight) going that fast due to diminishing returns after a certain amount of powder in a given bore diameter. You are very near the peak with a 125gr at 4Kfps, and if it will work, I suggest sticking with that or accepting a bit less velocity. You will never get a 180gr bullet to 4Kfps, and I have doubts about 150's at 4Kfps as well. I think you may get a 150gr Berger to 3700fps in a bigger round, maybe slightly more, but that's about tops I would think. You are also getting close to bullet break-up, as the heavier bullets will need a bit faster twist and they likely won't handle the RPM's at that speed. You are close to the edge at 4000fps with the 125's, and pushing it harder may cause blow-ups.
The 300WSM varminter has been very accurate from what I have been told from those I have spoken with, as I have been researching it due to a possible build I may undertake for my bro-in-law. It should do exactly what you want without issue and better barrel life than the larger rounds, which will really cook up a barrel in short order. I can't see a 30-338 going much over 800 rounds, so it's life will be severely limited. The WSM will likely go 1200-1500 if you take it easy and don't get it hot.
Good luck, sounds like fun.
Kenny
DCRYDER
Silver $$ Contributor
Yes, I read that correctly the first time.
No, I am not stirring anything, nor am I wasting my time with another ongoing bashing thread.
But, I would like for you to answer one question:
1. Just because they HAVE to be shot in the head, does this "rule" make it ETHICAL in your opinion???
No, I am not stirring anything, nor am I wasting my time with another ongoing bashing thread.
But, I would like for you to answer one question:
1. Just because they HAVE to be shot in the head, does this "rule" make it ETHICAL in your opinion???
Who gives a crap about whether or not it's ethical in anyones opinion? if somebody wants to shoot something and there are no laws that prohibit him from doing it why the heck are you arguing about it?
I see. How about we let by gones be by gones eh fellas?
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