Bushing or honed neck sizing die

[mgunderson]

I have normally used bushing dies for all my match rifles without issues. But switched to a honed neck die for a 6mm br and like the feel of the extraction more. This isn't barrel, action, bullet, propellent, or reamer specific observation.

Is there a situation or cartridge family you think is better served with a honed neck or bushing sizing die?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I have normally used bushing dies for all my match rifles without issues. But switched to a honed neck die for a 6mm br and like the feel of the extraction more. This isn't barrel, action, bullet, propellent, or reamer specific observation.

Is there a situation or cartridge family you think is better served with a honed neck or bushing sizing die?

I prefer bushings, if only for the ability to change neck tension. But either can work. I know that recent Lapua lots were not of consistent neck thicknesses from lot to lot. So, there's that too. Of course neck turning would address that. It's a shame really, as a few of us sr br shooters had been going to no turn chambers with some success, but it's not so easy when you're chasing a moving target in regard to neck thickness.

 

[SKWERLZ]

I prefer bushings, if only for the ability to change neck tension. But either can work. I know that recent Lapua lots were not of consistent neck thicknesses from lot to lot. So, there's that too. Of course neck turning would address that. It's a shame really, as a few of us sr br shooters had been going to no turn chambers with some success, but it's not so easy when you're chasing a moving target in regard to neck thickness.

Bushing or Lee collet for above reasons b

 

[AlNyhus]

I have normally used bushing dies for all my match rifles without issues. But switched to a honed neck die for a 6mm br and like the feel of the extraction more. This isn't barrel, action, bullet, propellent, or reamer specific observation.

Is there a situation or cartridge family you think is better served with a honed neck or bushing sizing die?

I'll always opt a bushing for the ease of neck tension tuning, provided the necks have darn near perfect wall thickness. On factory chambers that have a bit of taper along the neck length, I can live with .001 neck thickness variation with a bushing die.

I like to size as much of the neck length as possible. That means I have to drop the bushing floor down a skosh or three on Harrell's or Wilson style bushing dies.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Straightshooter1]

I have normally used bushing dies for all my match rifles without issues. But switched to a honed neck die for a 6mm br and like the feel of the extraction more. This isn't barrel, action, bullet, propellent, or reamer specific observation.

Is there a situation or cartridge family you think is better served with a honed neck or bushing sizing die?

The reason I like using a honed neck on a non-bushing FL sizing die is that I get the lowest TIR on the neck, even after using an expander mandrel than when I've tried various bushing dies.

Does it make a difference on my targets??? Not that I can really quantify, but I like to take care of all that I can control. Doing so, helps me better identify areas that might need looking at when things don't seem right.

PS: I'd have to say the one good thing I like about bushing dies is that the bushings don't size all the way down to the junction that helps keep the donuts forming on the inside out of the way.

 

[Ranger188]

I have a 6x47 and turn the necks all the same. Once I found out what
tension it liked bought a custom honed Forster FL non bushing sizing die.
Works great. I feel you get more of the neck sized also. (lower)
Only caliber I use it for.
Bushing dies have been used by top shooters for years, nothing wrong with
either way.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The reason I like using a honed neck on a non-bushing FL sizing die is that I get the lowest TIR on the neck, even after using an expander mandrel than when I've tried various bushing dies.

Does it make a difference on my targets??? Not that I can really quantify, but I like to take care of all that I can control. Doing so, helps me better identify areas that might need looking at when things don't seem right.

PS: I'd have to say the one good thing I like about bushing dies is that the bushings don't size all the way down the the junction that helps keep the donuts forming on the inside out of the way.

Curious, how much are you sizing your necks. The reason I ask is, I find lighter neck tension moves the brass less and creates straighter necks than if I squeeze it down a lot, regardless of bushing vs non-bushing..but ymmv.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Curious, how much are you sizing your necks. The reason I ask is, I find lighter neck tension moves the brass less and creates straighter necks than if I squeeze it down a lot, regardless of bushing vs non-bushing..but ymmv.

I size down to .002 below where I want to expand the necks to. Like, with my .308, where I turn the necks to .014 thickness, my die is honed to .332" and will mandrel up to .334 or sometimes .3345 for either the .002 or .015 neck tension.


Yes, that's been my experience too where squeezing it down a lot results in more TIR and more inconsistency, whether using bushing or non-bushing dies. The few bushing dies I experimented with using sizes that didn't go below the size for the target neck tension, still didn't do anywhere near as well as the honed die. My fired .308 comes out with a neck OD at .343". I suppose if I had a custom cut chamber to reduce that amount of expansion from firing, then maybe the less squeezing would give me much better results with good bushing die???

 

[Chuckhunter]

Honed Forester Dasher always gives me less, loaded round runout than a bushing die or a bushing die and mandrel. Tighter Bump tolerances as well. My necks are turned and annealed after every firing. Both bushing and honed FL die will give fine results but since I have a choice, I'll take fine and straight.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I size down to .002 below where I want to expand the necks to. Like, with my .308, where I turn the necks to .014 thickness, my die is honed to .332" and will mandrel up to .334 or sometimes .3345 for either the .002 or .015 neck tension.
View attachment 1667269

Yes, that's been my experience too where squeezing it down a lot results in more TIR and more inconsistency, whether using bushing or non-bushing dies. The few bushing dies I experimented with using sizes that didn't go below the size for the target neck tension, still didn't do anywhere near as well as the honed die. My fired .308 comes out with a neck OD at .343". I suppose if I had a custom cut chamber to reduce that amount of expansion from firing, then maybe the less squeezing would give me much better results with good bushing die???

Yes, that's why I'm not big on mandrels. Not knocking your process but it does require moving the brass further, just to move it back out with a mandrel. And yes, a custom reamer with say .002-.003 clearance over a loaded round and say .002 tension...well, you get my point and how it just requires moving brass less...fwiw. Both methods can work well, though.

 

[Oso]

There is an outlier albiet uncommon for majority of cartridges… cartridges with narrow shoulders. For cartridges, like 300BO and 300HAMR, where the case body and neck are very close (minimal shoulder) a die with honed neck is better. The minor chamfer/radius at bottom of the bushing combine with minimal shoulder (length and width) is better served with the uninterrupted profile from the honed die.

The only reason that I even thought about this is that I had a set of 300HAMR dies modified, with one converted to a bushing die and the other’s neck was honed. The honed die gets used majority of time.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Honed Forester Dasher always gives me less, loaded round runout than a bushing die or a bushing die and mandrel. Tighter Bump tolerances as well. My necks are turned and annealed after every firing. Both bushing and honed FL die will give fine results but since I have a choice, I'll take fine and straight.

If you’re able to maintain consistent case necks then absolutely a honed die is a great option.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I'll stick to bushings Getting a neck honed would take too long -send to US, ,wait return etc. But I do wonder about your comment on extraction, as I don't have any issues - but I don't move my brass any further than I have to. My chambers are all pretty good and bullet release is 2-3 thou. On some calibrers, I don't have to use a mandrel - just a FL size - no de-capping rod or expander. I was just doing load development using Lapua SRP 308 brass that has over 20 reloads. I just use Imperial wax for lube.

 

[Varminterror]

Standard dies = 1 bushing you did not pick

Honed standard dies = 1 bushing you did pick

Bushing dies = any number of bushings you pick

 

[David Christian]

The topic of this conversation is exactly why I moved to neck/shoulder bushings. In my simple mind, best of both worlds.

Neck/Shoulder Bushings Archives - Short Action Customs, LLC.

Neck/Shoulder Bushings for the Modular Sizing Die. Bushings are Cartridge/Caliber specific.

shortactioncustoms.com

 

[mgunderson]

The topic of this conversation is exactly why I moved to neck/shoulder bushings. In my simple mind, best of both worlds.

Neck/Shoulder Bushings Archives - Short Action Customs, LLC.

Neck/Shoulder Bushings for the Modular Sizing Die. Bushings are Cartridge/Caliber specific.

shortactioncustoms.com

Looks like the best of both worlds.

 

[memilanuk]

Neil Jones was doing neck/shoulder bushing dies long before SAC or Cortina even started shooting.

 

[BobT]

I have a 6.5-.284 sizer that I honed to fit my rifles chamber many years ago, it makes really good ammo! That's the only one I ever bothered honing and it was simply to avoid overworking that expensive Lapua brass. This was before I'd ever heard of a bushing die.