Bushing drag on neck with FL sizing die

[BCoates]

How fast are you running those cases in and out of the die? Since you mentioned you had to size a case a second time to bump the shoulder leads me to believe you are running the case too fast in and out of the die. If you are whizzing them in and out, slow down and let the ram can over and lock for like 5 seconds. This allows the brass respond for consistent shoulder bump.

What type of lube are you using? Lubing the necks? If you aren't using Imperial, get some and try it. There will be resistance going in and out of the die, but not enough to skew any sizing dimensions. Any part on the brass coming out really shiny?

Annealing definitely helps consistency. Do it every firing or every other.

I'm sizing fairly slowly especially on the return stroke so it doesn't pull the brass as much. I pause for 3-4 seconds at the top of the stroke. I'm using Imperial wax and lubing the body and necks of the case.

The cases are pretty shiny already since I clean with SS media, but i can see that the necks are "more shiny" like material is being taken off to expose a fresh surface.

 

[jlow]

Try this. Take a piece of fired brass and measure headspace. Now take your Whidden FL bushing die and take off not only the expander but also the bushing and just size the brass without either. Re-measure headspace. Has the headspace increase? If it has, then you are seeing what Patch700/Tzed250/ridgeway was trying to tell you which is the sizing die has not been adjusted down enough to properly bump your shoulder back to where it needs to be and the bushing is not really involved.

That pulling sensation you feel is real but that does not actually mean the "pull" is actually what is causing your increase in headspace.

 

[243winxb]

Head to datum variation when FL sizing.

The die and shell holder have to be in contact to control sizing. Its been covered on this site before. Here is the fix- Redding Competition Shellholder Set #1 (308 Winchester. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/525874/redding-competition-shellholder-set-1-308-winchester-30-06-springfield-45-acp

 

[BCoates]

Try this. Take a piece of fired brass and measure headspace. Now take your Whidden FL bushing die and take off not only the expander but also the bushing and just size the brass without either. Re-measure headspace. Has the headspace increase? If it has, then you are seeing what Patch700/Tzed250/ridgeway was trying to tell you which is the sizing die has not been adjusted down enough to properly bump your shoulder back to where it needs to be and the bushing is not really involved.

That pulling sensation you feel is real but that does not actually mean the "pull" is actually what is causing your increase in headspace.

I did what you are asking and the shoulder was bumped back. When the press is at full stroke, the die doesn't contact the shell holder. I may need to get the Redding comp shellholder set.

 

[jlow]

Get it. I've been there but thanks to some kind soul on this board, they pointed me to the Redding comp shell holder which really helps big time.

What happens is since sizing is a pretty heavy duty operation, there is enough slack in the threads that holds the die to the press and as you press hard, the die can move around in there. The shell holder helps prevent this big time and allows you to fine tune the bump.

 

[BoydAllen]

While die to shell holder contact will increase the uniformity of shoulder bump, particularly when sizing cases that have not been annealed, it is not a requirement for proper sizing. I have had around .014 taken off of the top of my PPC shell holders, and my bump is very uniform. On the other hand, I have a friend who was having problems in this area, and making contact did help with bump uniformity. Initially, he experimented with shim stock between the bottoms of his dies, and the shell holder. This would not have worked with my PPC, and may not with others that need to have the shell holder shortened slightly to achieve proper bump. One mistake that I read about pretty often, is that shooters try to size to a datum to head measurement that has not in relation to the maximum dimension that their rifle can produce. This can lead to frustration. IMO, what needs to be done is to produce at least one case that has the longest possible datum to head dimension that can come out of that particular rifle to be used as a reference for determining the correct die setting. This can be done by firing the case with stout but safe loads, with the cases only neck sized. Anything that allows the neck to hold bullets, without the body of the case being sized, will serve for this purpose. I never bump from the measurement of a once fired case. If I am forced to set a die and size without a reference case, I set it to produce a head to datum measurement that is the same as they came out of the rifle. With the reduction in body diameter, the brass chambers just fine, and excessive stretching is avoided. This is for bolt rifles.

 

[BCoates]

While die to shell holder contact will increase the uniformity of shoulder bump, particularly when sizing cases that have not been annealed, it is not a requirement for proper sizing. I have had around .014 taken off of the top of my PPC shell holders, and my bump is very uniform. On the other hand, I have a friend who was having problems in this area, and making contact did help with bump uniformity. Initially, he experimented with shim stock between the bottoms of his dies, and the shell holder. This would not have worked with my PPC, and may not with others that need to have the shell holder shortened slightly to achieve proper bump. One mistake that I read about pretty often, is that shooters try to size to a datum to head measurement that has not in relation to the maximum dimension that their rifle can produce. This can lead to frustration. IMO, what needs to be done is to produce at least one case that has the longest possible datum to head dimension that can come out of that particular rifle to be used as a reference for determining the correct die setting. This can be done by firing the case with stout but safe loads, with the cases only neck sized. Anything that allows the neck to hold bullets, without the body of the case being sized, will serve for this purpose. I never bump from the measurement of a once fired case. If I am forced to set a die and size without a reference case, I set it to produce a head to datum measurement that is the same as they came out of the rifle. With the reduction in body diameter, the brass chambers just fine, and excessive stretching is avoided. This is for bolt rifles.

The absolute max datum to case head dimension that will chamber in my is 1.6185" as measured with the Whidden headspace gauge that comes with the dies. That dimension produces a crush fit meaning I can feel resistance when closing the bolt. Most of my fired cases come out between 1.617 and 1.618". I have a Palma Bisley chamber, so the Whidden die fits pretty well with about 0.002" sizing at the shoulder and case head.