• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Bullets sorted, how to group them?

In my hands, various Berger bullets (.224" and .308") have far less BTO variance than OAL variance. Thus, nose length variance makes up the lion's share of OAL variance in a given Lot# of bullets. I sort bullets by OAL for the purpose of pointing them. A single length group has a total of .0015" OAL variance within it, which means I can point all the bullets from a single length group without altering the pointing die micrometer setting.

If you were to use a similar approach with bullets sorted by BTO, I would start by centering the middle length group on the 0.4930 (#6) group, then work to either side in increments of .0015" or .002" to accommodate the rest of the bullets with BTO measurements farther from the median/average. The more important question I would ask regarding this approach is what is the minimal BTO variance for which you can actually shoot a difference? The answer to that might change the total number of sorted BTO length groups you will actually need into which to divide these bullets. I usually end up with 7 or 8 length groups from a typical Lot# of Bergers. There will usually be a small number of "extreme" outliers in the shortest and longest length group, that go outside the .0015" range of that particular length group, so I always re-sort those two groups before use. Otherwise, I'd probably need at least another couple length groups to cover the entire range, and the shortest/longest of those might only have a few bullets in each.

With bullets sorted by OAL, I always start load development with one of the middle groups. Obviously, there are usually more bullets per group near the middle of the overall range in a typical Gaussian distribution. For that reason, I tend to load for matches only from the middle 2 to 4 groups, leaving those farther away in length from the median for sighters/foulers, and practice.
 
Last edited:
If you took the 15 from each tail on that sort, and shot them round robin into two groups, and found a difference, then you would have to decide how much further to keep testing.

If you shot that test and didn't find a difference, then you still know something for the trouble.

In for the range report.
Good thinking. And honestly, my equipment and skills at this point are likely more of a problem than bullet variations.
 
Good thinking. And honestly, my equipment and skills at this point are likely more of a problem than bullet variations.
Do your best to try and keep a balance of the issues.

When starting out, it is okay to spend some time exploring what variables are strong effects and which ones are weak.

If the shooter is the weakest link in the system, then make sure the gun and ammo are good enough for feedback and work on the shooter. You will know when it is time to sort components if you are being honest with yourself.

(A decent adult airgun or match rimfire rifle is worth the trouble. It can get you past debugging the fundamentals, if you didn't already have those while growing up.)
 
Do your best to try and keep a balance of the issues.

When starting out, it is okay to spend some time exploring what variables are strong effects and which ones are weak.

If the shooter is the weakest link in the system, then make sure the gun and ammo are good enough for feedback and work on the shooter. You will know when it is time to sort components if you are being honest with yourself.

(A decent adult airgun or match rimfire rifle is worth the trouble. It can get you past debugging the fundamentals, if you didn't already have those while growing up.)
Some sage advise. Thank you.
 
Competent handloading is the punishment doled out for being a shooter, so I try not to think of extra steps to take.

Seriously, the best shortcut I found was that the particular Bergers I use have a correlation between base to ogive & overall length. Therefore I don't measure the former any more, just batch my bullets as I meplat trim them in my Wilson rig. That way, I get the point I want for my 1200 yard shooting and with little extra effort can eyeball the bullets into BTO batches.
 
While watching tv over the past few nights I sorted almost 800 bullets - 87gr Berger VLDH, base to ogive. The bullets were 3 different lots, so I figured sorting them out might help.

The measurements spanned about 10 thou, I'm trying to decide how to divide these up.

My thoughts are to break it up into 4 groups:
- the 1st and 4th group are the outliers totalling 49 bullets, these would be used as foulers
- the 2nd group (0.491 - 0.493) totals 415 rounds
- the 3rd group (0.494 - 0.496) makes up the remaining 274

Does a 3 thou variance seem like a good way to bundle these bullets? They will be shot from my Tikka M55 .243 for short range BR, 100 - 300 yards.

View attachment 1283022

I did a Base to Ogive study on 211 Berger 105 Hybrids from the same lot. Here are my findings:
1633132170928.png

I was shocked! Yes, 97% were within +/- .002, but what about the 6 that were out by .009 to .025? Those are likely the ones that cause the WTF shots. I've been buying Berger's because I thought they were supposed to be more precise - apparently not.
 
I did a Base to Ogive study on 211 Berger 105 Hybrids from the same lot. Here are my findings:
View attachment 1283187

I was shocked! Yes, 97% were within +/- .002, but what about the 6 that were out by .009 to .025? Those are likely the ones that cause the WTF shots. I've been buying Berger's because I thought they were supposed to be more precise - apparently not.
Would you be so kind as to report back if the outliers group differently on the target?
 
Would you be so kind as to report back if the outliers group differently on the target?
Sorry, but I used them as "fouling" rounds and didn't pay any attention. In retrospect, probably a mistake on my part, missing the opportunity to better understand the effect CBTO has.
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
167,052
Messages
2,227,109
Members
80,152
Latest member
FormulaZR
Back
Top