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Bullet sorting - let us count the ways........

johara1 said:
Steve, I think the difference is the discipline, I shoot 1k BR. and the need for more accuracy than X corse or F class. I can see the difference from Bearing surface sorting and trimming and pointing for consistency for the year. Get the seating depth consistent is important also. vertical is well under your X ring for all year..... jim
[br]
Jim, [br]
Granted, there are practical considerations that make direct comparisons difficult. BR shoots short strings, fired rapidly, from a concrete bench. F-Class shoots longer strings, fired at a longer spacing, from prone, in more varied wind conditions. That said: anecdotal feedback from target pullers is that my absolute vertical is much less than X ring. Practical application of that, given the above constraints, is more difficult. I think it fair to say that equipment is little different except that our rifles are five pounds heavier. [br]
I went through a period of sorting by bearing surface and did not find significant improvement. Pursuant to this conversation, I just measured 100 Berger 230 Hybrids (lot #5192) using two Sinclair comparators. The total variance was .007". Berger lists the bearing surface as .495". That means ~1.4% bearing length variance. To the extent that bearing surface influences B.C., and I know that it does but not quantifiably, how much does 1.4% variance change the B.C.? If, as thumper4fun offered as example, the variance was .030", there might be verifiable improvement. I never saw 1/3 of that when sorting Bergers and, finally, stopped doing it with no noticeable degradation. [br]
My routine is to trim and point, weigh each bullet to eliminate any more than .5 grain high or low, keep an eye open for minor defects like nose folds, etc., and sort for seating depth using Bob Green's tool. My current .300 WSM load averages 9 fps ES @2865 and seems to hold excellent vertical at 1000. I don't want to be misunderstood here. If you find something that verifiably works for you, do it. My testing was methodical and careful and did not show a benefit to sorting bearing surface. I assume that your testing and that of thumper4fun was the same and showed a benefit, so you continue to do it. It is all anecdotal and should be tested by each shooter aspiring to improve.
 
Steve, I do like to shoot fast but if the condition doesn't hold you pick up. We shoot a lot of rds. in heavy you may shoot 20 at a clip. I use a light gun for heavy and shot a few in 4" range. ES was down to 3 SD is 0.. not every time close. The Dasher seems to thrive on the method i use and i shoot right beside the 300's and 338's...... jim
 
Steve Blair said:
If you find something that verifiably works for you, do it. My testing was methodical and careful and did not show a benefit to sorting bearing surface. I assume that your testing and that of thumper4fun was the same and showed a benefit, so you continue to do it. It is all anecdotal and should be tested by each shooter aspiring to improve.

Awesome and mature answer to 98% of questions posted of late that have been met with unwarranted & stinging criticism. I was beginning to wonder if I was still on Accurate Shooter....

Thank you maintaining your integrity, Steve!!!
;)

Rod
 
Glad to see some of you weighing in on the subject........no pun intended.

I shoot a Dasher in F-Open and have been using the 105gr Hybrids since I received 300 for pre-release testing. It's a fantastic bullet to be sure.

Initially I sorted only Ogive to base and then another sort by weight. "Length" lots were by ,001" and Weight lots by .02 grains. Results were good. (again, we're talking only bullet sorting - case sorting and powder weights are another matter I'm equally OCD about)

Last season I began sorting by bearing surface with two comparators (I do sort all by tip to base first before trimming and pointing with Whiidden's tool), then sorted again by weight and found my vertical dispersion was much tighter at 1K.

I just sorted thru another 1,000 and found a bearing surface variance of .006" from the shortest to longest, so I have six lots of bullets with equal bearing surfaces.
Interestingly, when sorted by ogive to base prior to trimming/pointing the variance was .010" from shortest to longest.

Weight-wise, I usually see a spread of 104.96gr to 105.10gr when weighing 500 to 1,000 of the Hybrids.

I guess I was asking in the opening post how many of you have found that a secondary sorting by weight after sorting by length (be it ogive to base or bearing surface) is worthwhile? And not just for peace of mind/doing all you can; but actual, quantifyable results?

I tend to side with Litz that the more important measurement is the bearing surface length, over ogive-to-base or weight.

I appreciate all of your input.

Bob
 
I use Bill Shehanes tool and measure the "bearing serface". I sort into batches of .001 and shoot em all in groups. If i have a few that are wildly out they will be relegated to fowler's....I toss non of them aside. As long as they are sorted and shot in groups, you are golden!!

Tod
 
Bob, last year i used the 105 Berger all year and it did a very good job. I also run them on the Juenke and the bad ones were 5 divisions and i started this year with a new lot and the good ones were 5 divisions. With the bearing surface check and trimming and pointing they still did fair but they shot big in testing. Went back to the old lot to make sure the guns were working and it again shot small. I didn't see anybody say about the Juenke machine but most have and use them,I went to the Spencers 103's and BIB 104's and things got a lot smaller...... jim
 
I sort by bearing length as well, but the last thing I do is slide the bullet through a bushing from a die, (Redding, Wilson, etc.) .001 size larger. This idea was passed to me from a friend and has made a difference in my group sizes at 1k. Most bullets will slide though the same, but some will be different regardless of manufacturer.

Try it or not it does seem to work at least for me, and for others as well. Just a different idea on sorting. By the way I do the bushing thing as I'm seating bullets.

Regards, Waverly
 
alf said:
I don't do a damn thing and seem to do OK......

I shoot with guys that don't do anything in regards to sorting bullets and they shoot just fine in our local competitions and at times even great. Often I wonder if we over complicate our sport and after pondering on that thought for a few minutes I go back to sorting bullets. :) I guess its just in my nature, but I sure do enjoy this sport!
 
From another thread, here is how Bryan Litz feels about it.

Bryan informed me that the most critical measurement in bullet sorting for consistency is in fact the base to ogive measurement.
See you Nancy's, even Litz agrees with me.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3822780.0
 
4xforfun said:
I use Bill Shehanes tool and measure the "bearing serface". I sort into batches of .001 and shoot em all in groups. If i have a few that are wildly out they will be relegated to fowler's....I toss non of them aside. As long as they are sorted and shot in groups, you are golden!!

Tod
Exactly as this only with John Hoover's tool
 
Waverly, Sounds like you were talking to Lowman..... LOL. If so he's a good guy...... jim


Yes Jim that would be true on all counts.
Waverly
 

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