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Bullet casting (range scrap question)

TRA,

I'm sorry to hear that you've had some difficulties.

Do you know exactly what caused your elevated lead levels? Do you attribute it more to shooting indoors or to casting?

Over on the Cast Boolit forums there's a bunch of posts on this topic. Over many years some have had problems and others have had no elevation of lead levels in their blood tests.

If enough precautions are taken...staying upwind of casting fumes, washing hands, not shooting indoors, powder coating, etc., I wouldn't say it's near impossible to be safe, but what you've posted above is a good reminder to be careful.
Both. I agree some seem to be immune to it, just like smoking. The majority are not. Blood tests are not an accurate measure of the lead in your body. Lead is Accumulative and does not stay in your blood that long. It finds a place to hide and Biopsies are the only true measure of total exposure. It's a poor analogy, but it's somewhat similar to radiation, in that it does not register after a while. You may be clean of radiation and have very serious damage done to your organs.

Here's just a short glimpse as to what happens to your body when exposed to lead.
Once lead enters the body, it is distributed to organs such as the brain, kidneys, liver and bones. The body stores lead in the teeth and bones where it accumulates over time. Lead stored in bone may be remobilized into the blood during pregnancy, thus exposing the fetus.

As I said some shows up in blood tests, most of it will not.
Lead is a cumulative poison, meaning once it enters the body, it accumulates in areas such as the blood, kidneys, liver, and brain. Inhaling lead dust or fumes is the most common way lead poisoning occurs.

Most who claim they have no lead accumulation or effects from it, are either avoiding the truth or are misinformed.
 
I haven't done much casting in the last few decades, but I used to salvage range lead, and got a fair amount of decent lead out of the deal. You'll need to wash it pretty thoroughly, dry it COMPLETELY before melting (or tumble it and throw out the media afterwards), then flux the heck out of it, several times, in order to get most of the impurities out. Everything lighter than lead (which is basically everything that is not dangerously radioactive or bismuth) will float. FMJs are usually open at the base, and most of the lead will run out. The copper is light, so they float somewhat point-up. You'll never get all the lead out of the jackets, but whatever comes out is what you get. Then you have to figure out the hardness of what you end up with- it WILL vary from one batch to another. I'd make sure the salvaged lead got used for something low velocity and low precision, like Cowboy Action shooting, roundballs or general plinking, but that's just me.

I have some mixed emotions about the process, as I'm all for recycling rather than landfilling lead. On the other hand, there are very real dangers associated with casting lead, whether it be for bullets, fishing weights, or whatever. Keep in mind that some of the common impurities are much more volatile and every bit as dangerous as lead, so even if you've taken all the precautions for lead, there are still a host of other heavy metals present in some lead scrap. Flux fumes can be relatively nasty too. Never cast indoors, of course, and pay attention to the wind outside.

I'm not sure why anyone would Goldberg up a melting setup out of a Dutch oven or some such, when a 20 pound electric pot is cheap, available, and much more controllable. The hazards with lead go up quickly when the temperature goes up, so an uncontrolled propane or campfire melt is really a crapshoot. A commercial lead pot is controlled to get just hot enough, and no hotter. Bottom pour is SO much better than futzing with a dipper or risking a splash. Besides, nobody will try to cook food in a Lyman furnace after I kick the bucket and somebody has an estate sale.
 
Use the proper precautions and you'll be fine. You are more likely to end up with mercury poisoning (depending upon where you live and the amount of fish you eat) than lead poisoning.
 
Been casting for many years. I always get tested for lead levels in my body when I have my yearly check up with my Doctor.
 
Well I have a Lee casting pot, w/ bottom pour works good.
I'm going with the turkey fryer and dutch oven to melt my range scrap. That way I can make bigger batches, and have a bit more consistent hardness level.
I only plan to cast bullet for one or two of my rifles. The 38-55 , and 45-70 , ammo will be used for range fun.
Hoping this will save me some cash..
The wife found me a Dutch oven at a thrift store, my brother in-law has a turkey fryer I can use, I have ingot mold, my uncle use to cast bullet and said I can have his RCBS bullet sizer. So all I need now is the molds for the bullets I plan to cast..
I've washed all the lead to get the rubber out of it..
It took me 2 1/2 hrs..and it sucked..I have 3 -5 gal. Buckets full of bullets I can barely pick them up..must be about 175 lbs per bucket
Another question..
I've seen Fortune cookie45 on you tube flux with wax and saw dust..is there a difference , I also have some casting flux from Midway use I used last time I casted ingots..
Does flux just break the surface tension of the lead so impurities can rise to the top and be skimmed off..???
 
Several things...safety first, of course.

I assume you're using the cast iron Dutch oven with the turkey fryer stand--do not use the aluminum turkey pot as it may "slump" and pour out your lead through a gaping hole. Melting point and loss of structural rigidity are two different things, and they occur at different temperatures.

Stamp or engrave anything normally used for food prominently with the words "poison" and "lead" so that someone doesn't borrow it or use it and forget what it was used for if you put lead into it. The same with any utensils for stirring or scalping out jackets/TMJ waste.

Double check the turkey fryer stand and make sure it's heavy enough for the Dutch oven and the amount of lead you plan to use. Some of those are stamped out of very thin metal; turkeys/aluminum pots/oil are a lot lighter than what you plan to use it for.

Numerous people on Youtube have smashed the TMJ's with a hammer or old axe to break the surface. Unbroken they may float on top, and if they let go they may shoot a small stream of lead quite a distance. They may not let go if the copper is thick enough.

Water converting to steam expands something like 1,600 times the volume. Dropping cold FMJ bullets into a hot lead pot could be explosive. Heat everything to cook off moisture before adding.

You may wish to consider melting the different types of bullets in separate batches. Hollow base wad cutters, 22RF bullets, and FMJ lead are usually soft. People have analyzed lead and found the latter two usually have about 2% antimony in them, BHN about 8-10. Some of the TMJ plated bullets may have come from the factory as the normal harder lead BHN 13-18 used in their regular cast bullets. Harder cast bullets could be anywhere from 13-18 BHN. I would rather have lead separated into different groups, if you just mix a bunch of random floor sweepings you will have batches that reflect that.

Assuming you wish to experiment with different cast bullets in different guns, IMO you would be better served with separate batches of BHN (Brinnell Hardness Number). For example, 38 Special loads with 8-10 BHN or 357 Magnum with 15-16 BHN may ultimately give you your desired accuracy. If you make bullet mutt stew you may end up with batches all over the place and need to purchase more soft lead/linotype/monotype to get to different BHN's for experimenting. A little more organization from the start may help you accomplish your goals with only a bit more sweat equity.

The Cast Boolits site really has a lot of your answers. Fluxes, reductants, dross, etc. At this point you are at what they would call the smelting stage, you want to clean the crap out of the scrap and form into ingots for later casting and experimentation in your Lee/Lyman/etc. melters. And again, I would take the time to separate what you have before smelting it.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?57-Lead-and-Lead-Alloys
 
I was castin' and shootin' range lead bullets when most of you were at your mothers teat! {this sounds better if said with a very heavy Scottish accent}.......One thing I always do is an initial melt to clean and flux and try to get out as much impurities as I can, then it is poured into small ingot molds. Washing {and of course letting it dry} the range lead is always a good idea. I know it's an extra step and yes, the impurities will float to the top anyway, but not all of it. Yes fluxing it will get you even more, but not all of it and especially not in one flux cycle. I always use well dried up sawdust first, followed by Brownell's flux and then ordinary candle wax or paraffin. The cleaner and better fluxed you have your lead the less abrasive junk to slide down your barrel and rifling. Use plenty of flux...it is way cheaper than barrels.
X-ray lead is dead soft pure lead and it is considered the "holy grail" of material to cast bullets with. Most lead of unknown alloy is too hard. Softer bullets work better and do not lead up the barrel. All this crap about "hard cast" is just that, crap. It sells bullets to those that otherwise don't know better and causes them to believe they are getting something. Whatever gets you thru the night is fine by me, but I always laugh when someone starts popping off about "hard cast" bullets. In reality, most don't have hard alloy to begin with, they think they do because they just bought it titled that way.
Suggest anyone casting gets themselves a good hardness tester, easy to use and then you know.

Edit: 40 years of casting and I have never been tested for lead poisoning...it comes in handy as an excuse for all the crazy things I do......."why is dad on a rampage again???" ...."must be all the lead he breathes"
 
Be sure to wear your protective clothing when you step outside your house. You don't want subject yourself to too much radiation:rolleyes: I guarantee you, you'll pick-up more radiation in a year, than you will lead contamination, in a lifetime.
 
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I've been on the cast bullet site..lots of info, according to the Lyman reloading boot I want a 20to1 for the 38-55.. pretty soft stuff..well I'll try smashing the FMJ bullets I with a hammer and see how that works ..I think I have the safety thing all worked out..( believe me..I get it) .. this should be a good experience..
 
bobcat93,

The LASC web site Texan referenced is a good place to visit as well. The RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1 has some good info too, basic alloys with BHN, diameter and weight variances of using different alloys in molds, etc.

In my world FMJ's have exposed lead on the bottom, and there is no need to do anything other than ensure that any moisture is driven off first before dumping them into a hot lead pot.

The copper plated with no exposed lead I call TMJ (Total Metal Jackets), these are the PITA to smelt. You could also nick them with an old file to get just a small amount of exposed lead. You may still have to crush them in the smelter with a pliers to get most of the lead. You will eventually conclude that you hate them, but they're still free lead. They also put a small brass/copper plate on the bottom of some standard FMJ's these days to be lead free for indoor ranges, I have no experience with smelting those. They may just let go when heated enough.

If you smelt enough FMJ's you may be able to clean them up enough to sell them to a scrap yard. Since you live in an urban area you may have to shop around to get a better price, scrap yards are notorious for screwing people. Scrap yards also sometimes have XRF scanners that can tell you what is in your smelted alloys.

Google lead poisoning, the Wikipedia web site had some good info. Some 90% of lead ingested settles in your bones, while that portion that will leach out of your soft tissues takes 40 days. It's something to think about.
 
don't boil your lead. Keep the temps reasonable, be smart with ventilation.

I use a cast iron pot over a propane burner, outside, to melt scrap for ingots. I cast bullets in the garage.

The biggest hazard with lead is usually a visit from the tinsel fairy. If she comes you'll know it. Check your steam tables, 1 cc of water = liters of steam at 750F; that means it will damned near empty your pot into the air in less than a second if you get it below the surface. It only takes a drop of water if you manage to get it below the surface to make your life painful. Always wear safety glasses.

FMJs that don't have any opening for the lead to run out will be a problem.
 
Melting lead isn’t much of a problem . Cast iron pot And propane cooker and a big spoon to dip the scrap off .
Don’t do it without good Ventilation .
Don’t put anything with moisture in it .
Melted 600 pounds of scrap lead and wheel weight . For weights in race cars
Larry
 
Got'er done guys.. approximately 300lbs of range bullets..I washed, dried, sorted out the total metal jacket bullets..melted, fluxed, and poured into 1 lb. ingots.. ended up with 176 1 lb ingots..I'm happy..
All the TMJ I cut in 1/2.. I put my bolt cutters in a vise and used one handle like a reloading press with a bucket under them. When I would cut the two PC would fall in the bucket..it sucked but I got it done. I took all the copper jackets to the scrap yard all 67lbs of them and got a worthy return that I didn't expect. Took me 16 hrs.
 

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