Bulk Reloading - Cleaning & Annealing

[Oso]

I have read a lot of the threads. I understand the process of reloading. My question is related to pragmatic reloading of Bulk Ammo (1 moa) ... not precision bolt gun. I am talking about case prep for 1000 cases at a time. I am a hobbyist, not a micro-ammunition plant that is automated... no Mark 7. Reloading equipment is wet tumbling (steel pins), progressive press, and a marginally tolerant wife...

Just to keep Perspective: .223/5.56 brass is Range Pick-ups, consisting of mixed head stamps and vintages. Expectations are reasonable (1moa) with budget friendly projectiles, such as 55gr Hornady FMJ. I am not trying to make silk purse from sow's ear.
Its time to do another large reloading batch and I would like to work in my Annealeez into this rotation. Yes - timing for annealing is before resizing. Assuming that annealing is done properly (just enough to anneal, but not enough to cook), what if any concerns are there with regard to annealing case with the spent primer still in it (not live primers)? Ideally, it would be best to decap/deprime before tumbling and annealing, but this means another cycle of the brass through the press using a universal deprimer. Is there a meaningful benefit for the additional step for Bulk ammo?

Current Process:
1) Run magnet over cases to identify steel cases versus heavily tarnished/sooty cases from suppressors. Toss out steel.
2) Sort for defects and range debris .... throw away/recycle bin
3) Wet Tumble (steel pins) with Dawn & Lemishine (or whatever cocktail mix you prefer) for 45 minutes with warm water.
* Unlike bolt gun, brass from Gas Guns has to be cleaned before resizing or else will clog dies quickly.
** If Very Dirty (burnt motor oil) then I change out water at 30 minutes and recharge for remaining 15-20 minutes. Gloves on.
4) Spin dry in separator to remove excess water and steel pins... layout to air dry.
>>> Proposed Annealing Step inserted here <<<
5) Lube cases and then Swage and FL resize/decap.
6) Trim to length (WFT)
7) Second case cleaning to remove lube and clean out primer pockets (20 minute wet tumble).
*** Steel pins do not cause work hardening to brass so not an issue as per AMP research/lab testing.
**** Steel pins also will knock down any burs.
8) Chamfer cases.

Thanks

 

[joshb]

This is what I’ve done for years.
For bulk 223 or 308:
Dry tumble to clean the range dirt off
Anneal
Resize/deprime
Dry tumble to get the Imperial off.
Check lengths
Chamfer
Prime
Load

 

[Straightshooter1]

I have read a lot of the threads. I understand the process of reloading. My question is related to pragmatic reloading of Bulk Ammo (1 moa) ... not precision bolt gun. I am talking about case prep for 1000 cases at a time. I am a hobbyist, not a micro-ammunition plant that is automated... no Mark 7. Reloading equipment is wet tumbling (steel pins), progressive press, and a marginally tolerant wife...

Just to keep Perspective: .223/5.56 brass is Range Pick-ups, consisting of mixed head stamps and vintages. Expectations are reasonable (1moa) with budget friendly projectiles, such as 55gr Hornady FMJ. I am not trying to make silk purse from sow's ear.
Its time to do another large reloading batch and I would like to work in my Annealeez into this rotation. Yes - timing for annealing is before resizing. Assuming that annealing is done properly (just enough to anneal, but not enough to cook), what if any concerns are there with regard to annealing case with the spent primer still in it (not live primers)? Ideally, it would be best to decap/deprime before tumbling and annealing, but this means another cycle of the brass through the press using a universal deprimer. Is there a meaningful benefit for the additional step for Bulk ammo?

Current Process:
1) Run magnet over cases to identify steel cases versus heavily tarnished/sooty cases from suppressors. Toss out steel.
2) Sort for defects and range debris .... throw away/recycle bin
3) Wet Tumble (steel pins) with Dawn & Lemishine (or whatever cocktail mix you prefer) for 45 minutes with warm water.
* Unlike bolt gun, brass from Gas Guns has to be cleaned before resizing or else will clog dies quickly.
** If Very Dirty (burnt motor oil) then I change out water at 30 minutes and recharge for remaining 15-20 minutes. Gloves on.
4) Spin dry in separator to remove excess water and steel pins... layout to air dry.
>>> Proposed Annealing Step inserted here <<<
5) Lube cases and then Swage and FL resize/decap.
6) Trim to length (WFT)
7) Second case cleaning to remove lube and clean out primer pockets (20 minute wet tumble).
*** Steel pins do not cause work hardening to brass so not an issue as per AMP research/lab testing.
**** Steel pins also will knock down any burs.
8) Chamfer cases.

Thanks

I'd suggest simply doing your annealing before your first wet tuble. This way, you're sure to remove the oxidation layer left from annealing that's on both the inside and outside of the cases necks.

 

[5spd]

My process for the last 45 odd years.
Spray Lube
FL size
Ss wet tumble
Oven dry
Trim, Chamfer, debur w/ Franklin center
Prime
Powder drop
Seat bullet
Go shooting, never annealed to date, but you could fit it in between one of the steps.

 

[Oso]

Since it is range brass with unknown number of shots fired through it case I thought I would change/improve my process with annealing. This will also be used on 300BO cases. I am just trying to tighten up some loose ends... not a lot of extra work so manageable.

Honestly, I have not had a very rigorous QC process for brass prep on bulk ammo for AR15s. I have used shortcuts such as relying on the steel pins to provide a chamfering on 223 cases. While forming 300BO cases, I have relied on the steel pins to knock off/remove any burs left after using WFT for trimming cases to length.

 

[searcher]

The WFT trimmer is a great tool. I find that I must replace the cutter after every 4,000 or so trimmings, otherwise - you get a pretty good ridge on the inside and outside of the case. That ridge starts developing far sooner - probably around 1,500 trimmings. Because I chamfer inside and outside, I only replace the cutter when it slows down my operation. Not doing an inside chamfer will surely mess up your accuracy a LOT - and outside chamfering will also hurt if the cuter is worn. If hitting a gong at short range is your use - it doesn't matter much - but if you expect any good long-range accuracy, you might want to give the chamfer a go. You can really speed it up by putting the chamfer tool in a drill press, drill or other mechanized manner. I really like the drill press method. Can do 1,000 pieces in about 15 minutes.

 

[Shooter13]

and a marginally tolerant wife...

A key factor here, good luck with the reloading!

 

[jepp2]

**** Steel pins also will knock down any burs.

I always de-burr the inside of the case mouth after wet SS pin tumbling. The cases necks will contact each other during tumbling and slightly deform the case mouths. I don't like anything that scratches the jacket of my bullet when I seat them.

I always anneal after sizing, really doesn't make that much difference if you do it prior to or after sizing. The reason I anneal after sizing, is the oxide layer annealing creates on the exterior of the case neck, will tend to deposit in the die, and scratch the case necks during sizing. I only anneal about every 5'th firing cycle, mostly to avoid neck cracks. Would anneal more often for better control of neck tension, but you said these are bulk loading for non-critical accuracy needs.

 

[Oso]

Big fan of the WFT. It was an revolutionary step in forming 300BO from .223 cases. I initially started with a Lee Delux Trimmer (Coffee Grinder) set up in my Rockchucker, which about wore out my shoulder. making a bunch of cases. Bought the WFT and chucked it up in a mini-lathe and never looked back. As mentioned above, when the cutter starts getting dull the brass no longer gets cleanly cut, but rather excess brass gets moved/displaced to the inside and outside edges of the case mouth forming burs. As soon as I started feeling any burs on neck or noticing any hang-ups when extracting the trimmed case from the WFT, I would change out the cutter. After trimming I would drop the cases back into tumbler to remove case lube, clean out primer pockets, and also knock off the burs on case mouth. Usually this did a good enough job that case mouths weren't any worse for wear than new Winchester brass. For my precision rifles I have always chamfered the cases, but with bulk I have neglected this step.

I bought a power trimmer (small router) that mounts on the press for case trimming. The finish is similar to WFT with flush cut using a end mill cutter. The issue of chamfer still remains to be solved.

Economically speaking, the Lee Quick Trim would fit the ticket with 2-3 quick turns. However, once you have used a power tool (no hand cramps) it is hard not to semi-automate with something like a Giraud Trimmer... great finish but pricey for Bulk. Also, not sure the cutter's life expectancy.

 

[Oso]

The cases will have been cleaned (steel pin tumbled) before the annealing so the only residue in the case will be any crud trapped underneath the primer. After most of the case prep in completed, the primer pocket will get cleaned during a 2nd tumbling used to remove the case lube.

So back to original question: Does it make any difference/negative effects to Anneal a case that still has the spent primer in the pocket?

Thanks

 

[Jdne5b]

So back to original question: Does it make any difference/negative effects to Anneal a case that still has the spent primer in the pocket?

Thanks

No

 

[CharlieNC]

With range pickup brass the sized headspace is likely to be quite variable. My final step would be to sort based on weight and headspace, and of course segregate by brand first.

In terms of annealing with the primer, I have not had any issues doing this and is my routine procedure.

 

[divingin]

The cases will have been cleaned (steel pin tumbled) before the annealing so the only residue in the case will be any crud trapped underneath the primer. After most of the case prep in completed, the primer pocket will get cleaned during a 2nd tumbling used to remove the case lube.

So back to original question: Does it make any difference/negative effects to Anneal a case that still has the spent primer in the pocket?

Thanks

Makes no difference if the primer is in or out (make damn sure it's a spent primer though.)

I've never gotten pockets clean by wet tumbling with less than about an hour. Sometimes a couple.

Then again, I've also reloaded brass without cleaning pockets at all, and seen little, if any, difference. So...

 

[Oso]

During initial QC process includes finding/discarding split cases, heavily dented/scratched cases, damaged extractor rims, heavy ejector marks (might be tail-tail for future case separation), Live primers, Blown primers, Bad swaging - small primer pockets swaged with large swage, and the infamous WFT's.

Every time we have a major panic/crisis, people get "creative" and new reloaders make it up as they go. I like finding .223 swaged to fit Large rifle primers or even better reamed out to accept shotgun primers. While sorting brass last night, I found a dozen cases that had been swaged with an improvised "Square" headed tool. Primer Pocket now had 4 sharp corners with straight sides. It was like a bad "Boxer" primer joke. My guess is someone used a square drive bit. Recycle bin...

 

[Straightshooter1]

The cases will have been cleaned (steel pin tumbled) before the annealing so the only residue in the case will be any crud trapped underneath the primer. After most of the case prep in completed, the primer pocket will get cleaned during a 2nd tumbling used to remove the case lube.

Actually, you'll still have oxidation residue on the case neck, both inside and outside, after your wet tumbling. The better you rinse the less the residue, but you're going to still have residue that'll effect seating pressure. But given that you're not doing precision reloading, this not likely an issue for you.

So back to original question: Does it make any difference/negative effects to Anneal a case that still has the spent primer in the pocket?

Nope.

 

[RegionRat]

@Oso , The only additional advice I will offer for bulk random pick-ups...

If you are concerned about annealing with the old primer still installed, it won’t have any affect. The head should never get hot enough to have any significant reaction in the pocket material from proper annealing. That said...

If you do wet process with the old primers, don’t store them that way. Water mixed with residual combustion products can cause accelerated corrosion issues. When dealing with range pick-ups, sometimes it isn’t possible to know how long the cases have been sitting on the ground already exposed to water.

If at all possible, with random dirty range pick-ups, it isn’t so bad to decap dirty, but inspect and size while clean.

One of those new Lee APP rigs isn’t difficult to clean after decap processing dirty range pick-ups. The aren’t 100% perfect, but worth the trouble when I process by the thousand and have more than enough ability to digest crimped/sealed mil-spec brass. I sometimes dedicate a run on a 650 just to have the case feeder take all the manipulation out of the decap operation, but that also means I have to make it worth cleaning up the machine when its all over. Also, keep spare decapping pins handy just in case of a pin failure.

 

[Oso]

Unfortunately, I have a number of buckets of brass (different calibers) in deep storage. After Sandy Hook I made certain to have enough brass so that I could keep shooting competitions without an issue. Doesn't hurt that I was raised to leave no brass on the ground (wasteful habit). Yes, this means that I have tumbled and stored cases with spent primers still inserted for future processing. I didn't have a progressive press at the time... decapping large volume on Rockchucker without a reloading plan in place is no fun.

That said, my tumbled cases always were air dry for days to a week of time under the fan. Also, if it was sunny the cases got tossed on back patio (periodically rotated) and then still spent several days laid out under the fan. Nothing went into storage until it was bone dry.

Going forward, I will modify my process. Thanks!