Build Me a Benchrest Rifle

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
How bout somebody describing from the get-go what they went through to have a BR rifle built. Doesn't matter to me whether Short Range or LR. Some of the items can be what competition you Shoot and how you made decisions on action, barrel, stock, and trigger. Later discuss your choice of scope. After your load development how does the rifle shoot in your choice of Competition. No grandstanding necessary most shooters here don't care for it. No pics necessary unless a recent completed project.
Give this Thread an honest effort. We all started somewhere usually with a used rifle. Like to see Gary Ocock come in on this one. I will shoot with him at Phoenix Dec 2-3 maybe I can get him to share with us.
Stephen Perry

 

[Rustystud]

Stephen:

What shooting discipline do you want to do a build up.

Factory Action or custom Action?

What Stock do you want Match rifle, Palma, BR, LR Prone, F-Class Open or TR?

Are you going to shoot 100, 200, 300 BR, 100, 200, 600, XC?

Are you going to shoot 600 or 1000 BR?

Are you going to shoot 800, 900, 1000, LR, F-Class, or Palma.


Most all of the disciplines need a trued, and timed, receiver and bolt.

Some use recoil lugs seperate from the action, this means the action face must be faced.

All action and bolt bearing lugs should be faced and lapped in.

All bolt faces should be trued 90 degrees to bolt race.

Action threads should be trued with the bolt race.

Barrels should be selected in caliber, number of lands and grooves, rate of twist, and length and taper bassed on bullet and velocity being selected. Both cut and button barels can get the job done.

The barrel tendons, should be turned, threaded, and chambered in the same set up to insure coaxial and concentric alignement of the bore. This should all be done with single point tooling an/or piloted tooling.

Barrels should be cut to length with a band saw and not a parting tool as this put stress o the barrel.

The crowns should be cut with single point or piloted tooling.

All action and barrel work should be done in an independent 4 or 6 jaw chuck with a jig or center to center set up.

Preceision round mandrels with dual .0001 indicator readings and jigs should be used in the truing process.

Stocks should be pillar bedded and/or glass bedded. Barrels should be free floaded or pillar bedded.

These modifications may help get you stated in the right direction.

I have not delt with triggers, sights, scope bases and rings, and stocks. That would be another .02 cents worth.

Rustystud
a/k/a Nathaniel G. Lambeth, Sr.
Custom Guns and Ammunition.

 

[StephenPerry]

Nathaniel
You gave the description of what I would expect from a BR rifle builder. Good stuff. What I was asking for was either for short range or long range competition. Two different rifles in my mind. Didn't expect such a through explanation, the guys will appreciate your Post. Hopefully we can make this into a substantial Thread. Thanks again.
Stephen Perry

 

[Bobs243Ackley]

Hi Stephen,

You could say that I have been spoiled working over at Sinclair. The "Shop" rifle that I have been shooting for the last 14 years is the following.

Hall M Action, Hart Barrels chambered for 6 PPC with .262" neck, Jewell BR Trigger, Hall BR Stock with weight system from TM Stock Works, Kelbly Bases, Jewell Single Screw Rings, & Leupold 36X D Series Scope.

Dwight Scott did the metal work, and as you might have guessed, Tom Meredith did the stock work. I have shot this rifle out to no farther than 300 yards, and as long as I do my part, this rifle has always delivered! What more can one ask for?!

This rifle was put together for any of us to use to shoot for Sinclair. I use it to shoot the local level group matches, and then it is also used at the Super Shoot as a backup rifle for the guys that are shooting the registered matches. Nothing like having a ready to go rifle for these guys in case a primary rifle were to break down.

Cordially,
Bob Blaine

 

[techshooter]

I chose the following configuration when building my latest long-range rifle for F-Class and live varmint shooting:

6 Dasher chambering using PTG 0.272" no-turn neck reamer
1.25" OD straight cylinder, 31", 5C, Broughton barrel, 8" twist
Trued Remington 700 SA, with bolt "bumps" TIG welded in place
Speedlock Systems firing pin assembly
Bolt firing pin hole bushed by Greg Tannel
Jewel HVR trigger set at 2 oz
Holland's pinned recoil lug
Richard's Custom Rifles Lowrider stock, pillar bedded
Northwest Armeswerks 20MOA Picatinny rail, Devcon bedded, and dowel pinned in place
Nightforce NXS 12-42X56 w/ NP1-RR reticle
Leupold QRW rings

I do all my own smithing now, and a complete log of the rifle build up, with pictures, can be seen here - it's a long page, so be sure to look all the way to the end:

http://www.the-long-family.com/6_dasher.htm

The pictures did not show the precision range rod, bushings, and dual 0.0001" dial indicators used to ensure the that the barrel bore is concentric with the headstock axis of rotation before chambering/crowning.

I do load development based on first determining the optimum barrel time,OBT) of the barrel length being used, then trading a number of powder choices in QuickLoad to optimize for best case fill, efficiency, and velocity, within reasonable pressures. Once this baseline load is determined, I then work up around this load at the range, measuring velocity and accuracy at 200 yards, averaging at least 5, 5 shot groups before declaring it ready for the final long range testing. I then validate the load at 600 yards, again by shooting multiple groups. If the load maintains it's grouping, with no excessive vertical, I declare victory.

For those interested in OBT and load development using this technique, explore the rest of my web site using the above link as a start. As a side note, I specifically designed the barrel length for this rifle to produce the desired optimum barrel time when the Dasher RL-15/107SMK load was near the maximum, and achieving the best efficiency and velocity. This was a detailed engineering analysis to find the optimum barrel length for this cartridge, powder, and bullet, as opposed to building a rifle then searching for a load, hoping that it will be a good one. If there is interest, I can share the Excel spreadsheet showing these calculations.

Fireforming for the Dasher consists of first sizing the Lapua 6BR necks up to 25 caliber, then sizing back down with a 0.268" bushing in a Redding S die. I seat a 107 SMK back 0.010" from hard into the lands, and use 32 grains IMR 4895 over a CCI450 primer to fireform. This load is very accurate at 600 yards. The full-on Dasher load is 33.25 grains RL-15, CCI450 primer, and 107SMK. This Dasher load yields single digit SDs, with a mean MV of 3070 FPS.

Targets showing the performance of these loads can be seen at the end above referenced web page. I have just started to shoot it a lot at 600 yards, and the performance has been far beyond my expectations. It shoots much better than I can. I consider this project a success.

Any future rifles will be built using similar design configuration calculations and feature trades.

Cheers,

 

[Forum Boss]

Folks,

Let's keep it civil.

Point #1, this is a Forum that exists because I write a check every month and have been doing so since August 2004. The site as a whole exists because I have donated about 3000 hours of my time and buckets of money. Nobody "owns a thread". There are thread starters and thread contributors. Everyone has an equal right to speak,write) what's on their mind. It is inappropriate to knock a thread starter because you don't like the way he/she launched the subject. If you don't like the topic--just leave it alone.

Likewise, it is inappropriate to criticize a follow-on thread contributor if the thread develops in a direction that the first poster didn't envision. Threads evolve, that is the nature of an open dialog.

James and Stephen, maybe the best thing is for you guys to take a "time-out" in terms of responding to the others' posts. But Stephen, much as your contributions are valued, a thread will take on its own life. If there is a comment that is truly inappropriate then it is my job, or Jason's job, to deal with the offending party.

Thankfully, very rarely over the past two years have Jason and I really had to intervene. In 27 months I've locked a total of 3 threads, and deleted just a handful of posts. I want to keep it that way--with "goodwill among men" and minimal moderator involvement.

But basically we want to maintain an open, free dialog, and I don't want folks chastised by a thread starter if other posters respond in a fashion that disappoints the thread starter. All Forum members have equal say so in the way information is exchanged here. Merely because member JOE SMITH starts a thread doesn't mean he or she "owns the thread", or that he is entitled to dictate how others should respond.

Ideally, a good thread is a collective enterprise--where contributions from many sources contribute to the thread's collective utility. We WANT a variety of viewpoints. It is the mix of ideas and experiences that gives the thread value. Nobody wants someone saying "Here is my song--you must dance to that tune or get lost."

If we all pursue the same goal--namely to learn from one another's experiences and wisdom, then things should proceed in an orderly fashion.

 

[StephenPerry]

Moderator
Then just let this Thread evolve. Several good Posts so far. I am concerned with the end result and that it stay civil. Ownership, I have been doing computer BR since 1997 and never considered complete ownership of any part of my writings. All there for the Public to view. Thanks for the oppurtunity an where is your BR gun project to add to this Thread.
Stephen Perry

 

[StephenPerry]

Techshooter
The perfect Post for this Thread. Your testing and records are phenominal your final 200 yd groups would be competitive at any BR Shoot. I like your chrono of work you have done and your evaluations. Having done your own smithing you know the comings and goings of the project.
As Ice said you can be my wing man anytime or I could be yours. I like the idea behind F Class which is in reality benchrest without the bench. I think they shoot F class at Pala, at least that is what my guys tell me. Keep up the good work and Thanks for the Post.
Stephen Perry

 

[Rustystud]

Stephen:

I build all my rifles to BR standards or to the highest standard the action allows for. Techshooter gave an excellent post. Even thought we may not do things exactly the same we do most of the same things to achieve the same goals. I think you will almost always find when shooting more than one discipline you will always find a specific rifle make, model caliber, cartridge, barrel length, rate of twist, sights scope, etc. will be discipline specific. This may not be as applicable in the factory classes. The 6mm cartridges may span the gap beter than any before.
Rustystud
a/k/a Nathaniel G. Lambeth, Sr.

 

[steveyrock]

techshooter
I am assuming that barrel is a 8 twist,I didn't see that any where in your equipment list for the project.Just wanted to have that confirmed as I see your using the 107 grain bullet.

 

[mikecr]

As inspiring,and helpful) as success stories are..
I could better discuss 'unsuccess stories' in rifle building.
Pitfalls, misfortune, Some common barriers shooters might face.
It isn't all sunshine.

If these follow your thread intention.

 

[StephenPerry]

Mike
Go for your Post Mike your theme sounds interesting I have had a few pifalls too in buiding a BR rifle, like buy a gun safe instead of putting the rifle under your bed and coming home to an empty gun case. I was ready to kill but they were minors. I waited till they were 18 but they moved. Gun safes will be my next Thread.
Stephen Perry

 

[mikecr]

Ok.
To begin 4yrs ago I ordered a complete rifle from a top Canadian gunbuilder. I put $2800US down, which was less than 1/3 of my order.
If alarms are going off in your mind, your brighter than I.
I actually was flat out ripped off, as he picked up gov't contracts with the machine equipment he purchased,with customer money). Haven't and won't get anything from this, including a refund.

2yrs ago I sent an action, reamers, die blanks, and a couple Lija barrels to a gunsmith, again in canada. A retired BR shooter who specialized in chambering. Another rifle project.. Why am I so stupid? Well American builders were all backed up. Canadians seemed eager to build for me. I heard what I wanted.
But this fellow simply disappeared from radar. Gone.
I'm saddened by this, as he seemed like a nice person.
I think there was an avalanche that struck his location! Seriously, it was in the news.

2yrs ago I also ordered everything needed for a 16.5lb Williamsport gun. Bat RS action w/20moa base rings, 2 Border barrel blanks, Shethane tracker, reamer set, die blanks, NF scope, all ammo components,for the life of 2 barrels).
I figured I might save time and keep some measure of control in this rifle build with all components inhand. Wrong.
I had everything in hand within 6mos, but getting the metal and then wood finished still took over a year. From this I learned to go ahead and triple completion estimates from anyone. No matter how popular they 'seem' from this and other sites. I also learned that there is no accountability in this industry's business model. If things don't turn out, it's YOUR loss.
So when I get things fixed, that didn't turn out, I'll focus on Williamsport.

During this time period, I also had a T2K built by McBros, and a woodchuck rifle built by a gunsmith. Both of these turned out well. So it seems best,for me) to have an American rifle builder handle the whole thing. My hat's off to them. I don't know how they do it!!

 

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
O.K. I have a project coming up. I'm not ready financially ready for a new Sporter so I will put together what I got. I will be building a HV/Cruiser.
STOCK
I have a Kelbly Graphite stock that had a sleeved BAT maybe in it. My smith/flag makers gave to me. Of course he knows I will come back later with a project and he get some of his money back. This smith one the better stock men I have seen. the stock now is fire engine red looks impressive. I will keep the color once the touch-up is done. The stock weighs 2.14# or about 34 ounces. The barrel channel will be opened up some to take my 1.35 Cruiser barrels.
ACTION
I will be using my 1350 Wichita that I now use in my Rail and my other Cruiser stock. The Wichita is a strong 1.35 dia 3 lug action that will be blueprinted and detailed again. The stock will be pillared bedded so that I can remove the action to use in my Rail. Wichita was a desirable action they also made a 1250 that was more compatible with the Sporter/LV class guns. And a shellholder action. Still see some Wichita actions on BR guns. Gary Ocock shot himself into the HOF several times with his 1250.
BARRELS
I am going to put my new Krieger 22 barrel on the HV gun, max HV barrel. I have had this barrel for several years with no plans. Now I have plans. Let Stu Harvey chamber my barrel in 22 PPC .245 neck. Stu has done several of my previous Krieger 22 barrels. Also I have 4 Cruiser barrels a Hart 6 PPC, a Hart 6BRS, a Hart 22PPC, and a Krieger 22 PPC. all the barrels shoot well. I will probably leave this as my 22 PPC HV from now on. My other HV has 6 PPC barrels on it.
TRIGGER
Not sure here. I have several Jewell triggers I could use but I also 5 Rem/Hart/Burns triggers that I could select from. Looking for a reliable trigger here.
SCOPE
As of now looks like my Lyman 36. I have used this scope on several guns. It is bullet proof and has some of the best 1/8 minute clicks I have used. The scope has Skip Otto CH's.
Brass
I will use up the several hundred Norma brass I have. No problem here.
BULLETS
I will use the 22 & 6 bullets I make. I make good bullets no need to shop around. Rorschach dies for the 22, Simonson dies for the 6.
POWDER & PRIMERS
Probably 322 for the 22 and 133 for the 6 this could change later. Primers WSR the silver ones I still have 10000+ of them.
RIFLE WEIGHT
I want the HV to check in at 13.46 but will take 13.45 Ha Ha. The Cruiser don't care but will probably weigh 15+ lb.

That's it a real HV project with the Cruiser thrown in. Probably my last parts gun as I hope to build my new Sporter next year with all new parts. Parts is parts but new parts are purtier. OK this is my rifle project how about some more.
Stephen Perry

 

[techshooter]

Steveyrock:

Thanks for the catch - I completely missed that critical bit of information - the previous post has been edited to include the 8" twist specification.

As an aside, the barrel is actually a 1 in 8.3" twist, as per Tim North at Broughton and confirmed by my measurements. This particular button has apparently been making some really nice barrels, but it pulls a bit longer than 8". As a result, it shoots the 105/107s really well, but does not handle the 115s well at all. I liked the one on my Dasher so much, I bought another just like it, to sit on the shelf and wait for rebarrel time. Top notch product and service from Broughton.

Cheers,

 

[Rustystud]

Techshooter:

I have my 5th 6mm, 1:8, 5C barrel from Tim North and Aloma at Broughton. He sent me on last July. He knew I would bore scope it before starting working on it. He told me "it has a spot on one of the Lands in mid barrel". Tim said he lapped it and the spot just would not go away. He further said if it does not shoot, "I will send you another barrel". I chambered it for my customer. The first 36 rounds were fireforming brass. 3 shot at 25 getting it on the paper, 3 shots at 100 getting the scope zeroed. The next three ten shot groups were under .4 at 100 with fireforming loads. The barrel has been a hummer.

I ordered another one of those 6mm, 1:8, 5C Broughton barrels. I asked Tim to make this one look like a leopard on the inside with spots.

Rustystud

 

[techshooter]

Nathaniel:

Yep, mine's a hummer too, at least I think that it is,too limited experience to make this a firm statement), as I have never seen a rifle shoot like this one does. My 100 yard fireforming performance is similar, and it does this over a 2 grain powder charge range to boot. At 32 grains IMR4895, it will shoot bugholes with the 107 SMKs at 100. I have not tried it with the 68 grain FB Bergers; may have to do this, just for grins. The 8 twist is not optimum for this bullet, but it still should shoot very well.

Mine does not have the Leopard spots, at least I didn't see any when scoping it before fitting. It cleans up faster than any other barrel I have previously seen. If you have fitted 5 of these, and they all have been good, I expect that the new one will be a winner as well. I hope so, as I can't stand the though of this rifle not shooting like this for a long time.

Cheers,

 

[Rustystud]

I have chambered them in 6mmBRX,2X) and .243,one light weight athe other 32" 1.200 X .820). The one .243 is on a 20 inch model 7 Remington. It is shooting 10 shot groups under .7 and I beleive it will do better when I get the action pillar bedded and glassed in. All the others are bug holling it.
Rustystud

 

[StephenPerry]

Chris & Nathaniel
Just interested what did you guys call exceptional barrels before Boyer started using the Hummer term if we was the first. What do either of you guys like for a balls to the wall .223 vermin gun. What action would recommend and barrel. If I get proficient with my lathe I would like to try this project. Stock I could do myself. What scope do you recommend for say 300-400yd shots. Trigger I'm not sure I have 5 Rem/Hart/Burns 2 ounce triggers might not be safe in the field. This would my other project I would like to do.
I like the .223 because I make my own 22 bullets and have several thousand WCC 64 brass and the loading equipment. I watch my buddies shoot hi-power with .223 and they impress me.
Stephen Perry

 

[techshooter]

Steven:

I am too new to the long range accuracy game to have developed my own vocabulary. I have been slowly working my way up the ladder in terms of rifles, first a factory M700 in 220Swift, then a factory Savage 12 in .223, which started me on my quest after I changed the barrel to a pre-fitted Pac-Nor in .223AI, 8 twist. That was where I got interested in the physics of what goes on when the powder starts to burn, and why accuracy varies as a function of the loading variables. I then had a custom rifle built in 6mm-22/250AI, allowing me to shoot past 1000 yards. That led me to building my own rifles. A 6.5-284 on a MAK tube gun chassis, and the 6 Dasher are my projects so far. The .223AI will shoot in the 3s at 100 with the 75 grain AMax at ~2950 FPS, and the 6-250AI in the 5s using the 107SMK at ~3050 FPS. Anything that shoots under 0.5" at 100 yards consistently still amazes me, so I guess that a hummer would be half that. The Dasher is a hummer by that definition, and so is the .223AI.

If I had to pick one cartridge in 22 caliber it would be the .223AI, hands down. Enough boiler room to get the 55s going almost as fast as a 22-250, and with the 75 grain VLDs,AMax) I have made shots at 600 on prairie dogs, very, very consistently. Cheap, accurate, and easy to load for.

I have a Burris Black Diamond 8-32X50 on the .223AI, Sharp Shooters Supply stock,I'd by a Richard's Custom Rifles stock if I had to do it over again), SSS trigger, Pac-Nor 8 twist SSSM barrel. The Burris scope is OK, but the price is getting close to the Leupold, so I'd go with one of them, probably the 8.5-25X50 LRT.

My favorite rifle to shoot is the Dasher, but the .223AI is a very close second.

Hope that this helps!

Cheers,

cdl