Budget minded custom action

[masterblaster1]

Okay after reading about how much my beloved Savages under perform a custom built gun I am looking to build one to see. Yes I do have to stay on a budget, the level is set by my wife and that level changes by her mood, which means by the minute, like any wife. Looking to build a 6 or 6.5 tactical type rifle with 24 - 26" barrel that can pull double duty as BR or Tac/sniper type shooting competition, more of a BR though as I am becoming an old fart and trouncing around with 40 pounds of gear on my back hurts. I have been happy with my lowly Savages, Remingtons and Winchesters up to this point but now I want to do one gun that will be my true "custom" to compare to the
"built" rifles.

I plan to get the action from bugholes so I can pick it up locally on my Harley rides over to the west coast Fla. That leaves my choices kind of limited to , Stiller, Defiance, Surgeon. Advice appreciated.

If there is a better brand out there I can order and have it shipped though so post the recommendations. I am leaning towards Larry Racine or Phoenix customs to do the build. Help me build this rifle, thanks.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Kelbly, BAT, Defiance, Borden, or Stiller in that order. I don't like Surgeon that much die to their cast receiver, but they are very popular in Tactical competitions.

 

[Toolbreaker]

Surgeon receivers are cast now? Last I knew, they were wire EDM'd from heat-treated 41xx blanks. Raceways, outside & intrigal picatinney rail, all in one setup.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Surgeon receivers are cast now? Last I knew, they were wire EDM'd from heat-treated 41xx blanks. Raceways, outside & intrigal picatinney rail, all in one setup.

I thought they were cast, but I just read their website and looks like you are right.

Well, there you go, Surgeon is also a great choice.

 

[Milo 2.0]

You say you're on a budget, that "floats" with your wife's moods, hope she's more stable than mine :
That just about rules out the first four. If price is the driving factor, get the Stiller, they're actually pretty nice for the tac thing.
The Defiance is in a league of it's own, the Borden is a masterpiece also, not much out there in tactical builds though, more target and hunting.
The other 2 are target orientated companies.
I've been around 6 Stiller builds, all impressive! Try shying away from coating it if possible.

You can't buy a Surgeon these days without going through them for a full house custom.

 

[Erik Cortina]

You say you're on a budget, that "floats" with your wife's moods, hope she's more stable than mine :
That just about rules out the first four. If price is the driving factor, get the Stiller, they're actually pretty nice for the tac thing.
The Defiance is in a league of it's own, the Borden is a masterpiece also, not much out there in tactical builds though, more target and hunting.
The other 2 are target orientated companies.
I've been around 6 Stiller builds, all impressive! Try shying away from coating it if possible.

You can't buy a Surgeon these days without going through them for a full house custom.

Kelbly makes an atlas action that would fit his needs.

 

[flatlander]

Stiller sells more custom actions than anyone else in the country. Whether that's a good thing or not, you decide - I'm just stating the fact. I've built several rifles on Stiller Predators for customers, and never had any complaints after delivery. Built a couple of high-end hunters on Defiance Rebels - only complaint was trying to get the one in 300RUM to feed smoothly & reliably. Have also barreled several Surgeon actions; aside from the fact that their integral scope rail doesn't extend far enough forward to suit me, I think they're a good action. Since so many of the guys who shoot the PRS practical matches use Surgeons, I have to wonder how they get along with the short scope rail.

I'd like to do a rifle for myself on a Defiance or Surgeon someday, if for no other reason than to be able to compare it to my BAT 3L, Nesika K, and Pierce TG custom actions, as well as a few rifles I've built myself on trued Remingtons. Trouble is, in order to afford another custom action, I'd probably have to sell one of the ones I've already got, and I kinda hate to do that.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Looking to build a 6 or 6.5 tactical type rifle with 24 - 26" barrel that can pull double duty as BR or Tac/sniper type shooting competition, more of a BR though ... but now I want to do one gun that will be my true "custom".

Just FYI, you can't have one rifle that is truly competitive in benchrest and tactical shooting, if we are talking about "real" competition (as opposed to club shoots -- and even club shoots can become pretty competitive). Benchrest rifles will be single shots set up for ease of loading (often RBLPRE for right-handed shooters), with VERY close bolt-to-raceway fit. BR rifles have an appropriate stock for riding the bags, and will be built to strict dimensional and weight standards to fit their class(es). Scopes are usually light to keep more weight in the barrel. The short-range and long-range BR rifles are also different from each other.

Tactical rifles are repeaters with a stock suited to various shooting positions, often using a bipod instead of pedestal front rest. The action therefore has the loading port on the same side as the bolt, and the bolt-to-raceway clearance is often greater to tolerate some dirt without compromising function. Scopes may need to be more complicated (and heavy) to deal with "non-standard" ranges.

The various accuracy shooting disciplines are so specialized that you simply cannot be competitive in all of them with one rifle. Since most people don't like to come in last every time, I would recommend choosing ONE discipline for your custom build, and shooting your other rifles for the "informal" competitions. Purpose-built competition rifles also hold their value better than a one-off will.

BY FAR the least expensive way to get a competitive BR rifle is to buy one used. Lightly used BR rifles made with top-quality components come up for sale all the time at 2/3 the cost to build a new one, and often include dies, brass, etc.

I don't know enough about the tactical games to give advice on saving money.

 

[Terry]

I can't help myself, I have to ask, are the custom actions really better than a Savage Target action?

I have several Savage target actions and two Batt actions. The Batts are a work of art but I'd be hard pressed to prove they shoot better.

 

[Scott Harris]

Just get one of your Remingtons trued up and the firing pin hole bushed. That would be the most economical and the performance will be as good as a custom. Stiller would be the least expensive of the customs. Sure customs are smooth and look good, but I think a trued Remmy will keep up with them 100% in the performance department.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

To the OP:

When getting advice, think hard about the source. If you want to be competitive, it's easy enough to find out what equipment is being used by the winning shooters -- check the equipment list from a major event in the relevant discipline. Advice from non-competitors, or poor competitors, isn't worth much IF your goal is to win.

For example, if you're interested in competing in short-range benchrest:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/competition/2011-super-shoot-report/

 

[Milo 2.0]

Op says he's a Savage fan, here's an action that has a rotating bolt, most people like these.

http://www.bighornarms.com/action-info/

 

[Terry]

To the OP:

When getting advice, think hard about the source. If you want to be competitive, it's easy enough to find out what equipment is being used by the winning shooters -- check the equipment list from a major event in the relevant discipline. Advice from non-competitors, or poor competitors, isn't worth much IF your goal is to win.

For example, if you're interested in competing in short-range benchrest:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/competition/2011-super-shoot-report/

I agree.

2012 NBRSA 600 yard champ.

 

[LHSmith]

Surgeon receivers are cast now? Last I knew, they were wire EDM'd from heat-treated 41xx blanks. Raceways, outside & intrigal picatinney rail, all in one setup.

I thought they were cast, but I just read their website and looks like you are right.

Well, there you go, Surgeon is also a great choice.

Perhaps you were thinking of Farley, they were (are ?) cast.

 

[butchlambert]

You will find that A Remington receiver fully machined to the specs of a custom will cost the same as a custom. Facing the receiver, lugs and straightening the threads with a bushed bolt should shoot well, but will be well short of comparable to a custom.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

2012 NBRSA 600 yard champ.

Got a link to the equipment list for 2012? Here's the one for 2011:

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?69815-NBRSA-600-Yard-Nationals-Equipment-List

 

[Raythemanroe]

Surgeon receivers are cast now? Last I knew, they were wire EDM'd from heat-treated 41xx blanks. Raceways, outside & intrigal picatinney rail, all in one setup.

I thought they were cast, but I just read their website and looks like you are right.

Well, there you go, Surgeon is also a great choice.

I think the Black Widow was or is investment cast

 

[Raythemanroe]

I bought a SPF predator from bug holes (SPR) and think there good actions. The Defiance action Bug Holes has for sale looks like a solid Tacticool action with integrated 20 MOA rail

 

[BoydAllen]

The issue of suitable actions having been fully covered, let me bring up one "wierd" suggestion.

Years back, when Precision Shooting had a sister magazine devoted to tactical shooting, one of its better writers did a piece on a rifle that Nesika built to his specifications (a magazine fed .308), even though they were somewhat dubious of one specification. Although it was for a right handed shooter, the action was left bolt left port. Not being an expert in tactical shooting, the writer had enlisted the aid of a young, ex military shooter who was not only an instructor, but had considerable competition experience in that sport. This young fellow said that not having to take his trigger hand off of the stock, was an advantage over a right bolt right port rifle, and that after shooting the left, left, it made him wonder why he even owned two right right competition rifles. This caught my eye, because I shoot left handed (dominant eye) and have a lot of experience shooting right, right actions, and find them much handier off of a bench, or any other situation where the rifle is not supported by the non trigger hand. I know that most shooters lack this experience, and my suggestion will go in one ear and out the other, but I know what I am talking about on this, I would also say that given that tactical shooting is done with the rifle loaded from the magazine, that I would probably not go with an opposite bolt and port configuration, that is so typical for single shot bench rifles.

 

[22BRGUY]

The issue of suitable actions having been fully covered, let me bring up one "wierd" suggestion.

Years back, when Precision Shooting had a sister magazine devoted to tactical shooting, one of its better writers did a piece on a rifle that Nesika built to his specifications (a magazine fed .308), even though they were somewhat dubious of one specification. Although it was for a right handed shooter, the action was left bolt left port. Not being an expert in tactical shooting, the writer had enlisted the aid of a young, ex military shooter who was not only an instructor, but had considerable competition experience in that sport. This young fellow said that not having to take his trigger hand off of the stock, was an advantage over a right bolt right port rifle, and that after shooting the left, left, it made him wonder why he even owned two right right competition rifles. This caught my eye, because I shoot left handed (dominant eye) and have a lot of experience shooting right, right actions, and find them much handier off of a bench, or any other situation where the rifle is not supported by the non trigger hand. I know that most shooters lack this experience, and my suggestion will go in one ear and out the other, but I know what I am talking about on this, I would also say that given that tactical shooting is done with the rifle loaded from the magazine, that I would probably not go with an opposite bolt and port configuration, that is so typical for single shot bench rifles.

Great point Boyd!
Then there is the old saying "I hope that if something ever happens to me that my wife doesn't sell my rifles for what I told her I paid for them" (lol)