Brass life of newer 6 Dasher Fclass brass?

[steve123]

The 6 Dasher Norma brass was the first lot manufactured and which had some rim thickness issues. The 6Dasher FClass Brass is the second lot which was to correct the issues with the first lot, hence the addition of the FClass designation. Also, Midnight Medic is correct in that the Norma Dasher brass is best served with a slightly smaller dimmensioned reamer. Most "regular" sized Dasher reamers are too large at the .200 mark and can result in primer pocket issues with normal "full" powder charges.

Thanks to all!

The back and forth has answered most of my questions and addressed my concerns.

Ha, I still haven't made a final decision yet on which cartridge or variant to go with.

If I were chasing speed I'd just stick with 6x47L and I can always put that barrel back on whenever I feel like it.

It's kind of the opposite right now for me because I would rather enjoy longer barrel life, 30-33ish grains of powder, and 2900+ fps out of a 26" would be fine.

Not that I have a choice currently since the Lapua BR brass has dried up but I think with Their correct reamer for the Norma Dasher F class brass, and some normal pressures, it would last and "likely???" suit my needs.

Well, I do have a 6.5 Saum when it's super windy and also the 30-375R. Gotta have some backup, right?!

 

[Hanbleceya]

And general thoughts of it compared to Lapua 6BR brass once formed to Dasher? I know that the neck is longer, etc.

What got me thinking about this was it seems 6BR Lapua brass is out of stock a lot, like at Powder Valley, where I usually buy from.

Oh, and how about Norma brand 6BR brass compared to Lapua?

I've been real happy with x47L brass which has lasted seemingly forever so I don't want to be disappointed.

Thanks

Hope I don't misspeak - my knowledge about the Dasher Norma brass is thus: The sole distributor ordered either 1 or 2 million, in order to get Norma to agree to tool up for it. They were available at bullets.com, the CEO of which used venture capital to get Norma to make them.

Experience: unexplained very significant flyers, but good accuracy from others; a gunsmith (a competition shooter) that chambered and shot this rifle gave me a sealed bag of the cartridges and rebarreled to an XC.; I then went back to bullets.com and saw them marked down from ~$120 to $78 overnight; the next week-UNAVAILABLE; two weeks later they have F-Class but no standard Norma 6 Dasher. What I do know is that the first iteration/batch had problems with the base (took thick, don't recall). They then ran a second batch but I haven't seen them and haven't really looked because I am instead rechambering into BRX. Norma did state early on that they double stamp the heads to make them harder and they use a different (proprietary) brass stock. So the harder case head is probably something they did not change (?) but then what did they change in order to get them back into the market share. Change what they call it, change brass stock, different stamping process? I really have not found any information about this and likely never will.

And therein lies the rub. Is the F-Class really second-run 6 Dasher brass relabeled to get around all the bad press? Why do they no longer sell 6 Dasher? And why did the price go back up to $110 overnight? This is probably beginning to read like a 50's P.I. movie script. Sorry. Do enjoy mixing work with play a bit.

Lapua? Aces. Known quality, uniformity, cheaper (who would have thought?) Availability: Just like the Berger 105 Hybrid-took a powder. Lapua recently moved two of their facilities as a result of joining NAMMO Group. I communicated with one of their people in December.

"With the moving of our bullet production to Mesa AZ and our distribution to Sedalia MO there have been some delays in production and shipping. We have been putting in long days working very hard to get all of our systems back on track very , very soon.

Phil Hoham


Technical Specialist


USA Commercial Ammunition

I cannot remember who I spoke with but I think it was the chief of operations of the soon to be sole importer of Lapua brass. He told me that all ordering would go through him in the future but that our typical sources would still carry the brass. In, English, they are cutting out the middleman and will charge whatever they want. My concern is that this protracted scarcity will result in higher prices. And they may see it as an opportunity to match prices with that of Norma f-class.

 

[Hanbleceya]

Thanks to all!

The back and forth has answered most of my questions and addressed my concerns.

Ha, I still haven't made a final decision yet on which cartridge or variant to go with.

If I were chasing speed I'd just stick with 6x47L and I can always put that barrel back on whenever I feel like it.

It's kind of the opposite right now for me because I would rather enjoy longer barrel life, 30-33ish grains of powder, and 2900+ fps out of a 26" would be fine.

Not that I have a choice currently since the Lapua BR brass has dried up but I think with Their correct reamer for the Norma Dasher F class brass, and some normal pressures, it would last and "likely???" suit my needs.

Well, I do have a 6.5 Saum when it's super windy and also the 30-375R. Gotta have some backup, right?!

I apologize, Steve123. I didn't read all of the posts before I responded. Thought I had.

 

[Hanbleceya]

Is it that the fclass brass is too new to know or you guys just don't like it?

I'm either going to do a Dasher, a 6BRA, or 6mmBR, I haven't decided yet and brass availability is a strong consideration.

Too new, read my other posts. There have been 2 production runs; 1st,major problems and they (bullets.com) clearanced it out at $78, then came out with 2nd run but named it f-class. Proceed with caution and beware of 1st run lurking out there in the shadows!

 

[Hanbleceya]

Well at least you tried to help, although in a crusty way, lol. Thanks though. I searched google and here, both with nothing germain to my question on the F-class Dasher brass.

That thread was in 11/16 and it was likely the batches of old/new Dasher Norma brass??? Besides, the OP of the thread seemed to have had a chamber problem.

I'm referring to the "new" Norma f-class brass which the guy in the link I'm assuming didn't use???

Don't get me wrong, my first choice would be Lapua but what if the entire next shipment into the states is sold out before I realize it. Well it would be nice if I didn't need to firefrom for the Dasher if I choose that chambering.

Looks like Alpha brass might make 6mmBR brass or Dasher brass too.

I don't believe Alpha does.

This shortage has gone on longer than it should have (Same issue with Berger 105 Hybrids), even taking into account Berger moving facilities and Lapua going to one sole importer status... The truth will be out soon. And I think prices are going to go up and put Lapua price at or near Norma 6Dasher f-class. Look up NAAMO group and Berger...hmmm. I would be glad to be wrong but there are a lot of coincidences happening at the same time as these shortages.

 

[Hanbleceya]

Is it that the fclass brass is too new to know or you guys just don't like it?

I'm either going to do a Dasher, a 6BRA, or 6mmBR, I haven't decided yet and brass availability is a strong consideration.

Hearing that brass life is shorter than Lapua, but cannot attest. Different alloy.

 

[steve123]

Hearing that brass life is shorter than Lapua, but cannot attest. Different alloy.

Thanks for all your info.

Gonna be mid summer before I get going on this build. Hopefully Lapua brass and hybrids will be available by then. I do have a decent stash of hybrids on hand in 6 and 6.5!

Got a ARC Nucleus coming and I doubt it'll be in before June.

 

[Shiraz]

Hope I don't misspeak - my knowledge about the Dasher Norma brass is thus: The sole distributor ordered either 1 or 2 million, in order to get Norma to agree to tool up for it. They were available at bullets.com, the CEO of which used venture capital to get Norma to make them.

No, I did not use Venture capital to buy this brass, not that it makes any difference.

1) To simplify the answers the first batch had thicker rims than normal and so we discontinued that batch and blew it out with a price reduction below cost. It's all gone!

2) The second batch is perfect, but the best way to use it is to use the reamer made for it. If you use it in Lapua wildcat chambers with hot loads right off the bat this may cause weaker primer pockets.

3) The correct way to get more life from brass (any brass) is to fire it at a lower than max load for the first firing and work up the most accurate and fast load for that brass and that chamber in subsequent firings. For example, a maximum load from a Lapua chamber and Lapua brass is not automatically transferable to the Norma brass.

The guys getting the best use out of the Norma Dasher brass are using the Norma brass in a chamber that was cut with the reamer made for it, or made new to the shooters specs for that brass. They are also not using the Lapua maximum loads as a starting point.

I am not really going to argue with the guys who have a different opinion than this, but this information has been derived from customers of the Norma brass.

 

[smoooth]

Thank you Shiraz!!

I really like the first run 6 Dasher brass! For the guys who don't, shoot me a PM and lets make a deal.

 

[swd]

Proceed with caution and beware of 1st run lurking out there in the shadows!

There's nothing at all wrong with the first run brass. The only difference is the rim thickness. If anything it's got stronger primer pockets because of the extra thickness. Of 5 of my rifles it fits 4 extractors. The smart guys bought up all the first run up when it went on close out because they understood the value.

 

[dat]

How do you know the difference between the 1st run and 2nd run 6 dasher norma brass?

 

[WIB3]

Why don’t you think ahead and purchase the Lapua brass in the spring and summer when it is available. Come October thru February it always dries up. It’s simple, pre planning.

 

[dmoran]

This is a 2-year old thread.
Just saying....

 

[swd]

How do you know the difference between the 1st run and 2nd run 6 dasher norma brass?

The first run had thicker rims and had problems with some extractors not picking them up. But most actions are a bit sloppy in the linear extractor dimension and it's a non issue a lot more often than not. But it was one of the many arm chair internet arguments about the first run brass. I personally prefer the thick rim first run..

 

[dat]

The first run had thicker rims and had problems with some extractors not picking them up. But most actions are a bit sloppy in the linear extractor dimension and it's a non issue a lot more often than not. But it was one of the many arm chair internet arguments about the first run brass. I personally prefer the thick rim first run..

Ok, is there any way to visually see the difference in 1st and 2nd run brass. Head stamp the same? Is the thicker rim to thinner measurable with a caliper?

 

[swd]

Ok, is there any way to visually see the difference in 1st and 2nd run brass. Head stamp the same? Is the thicker rim to thinner measurable with a caliper?

I don't have any second run to compare it to but yes you could easily measure it with calipers.

 

[good2go4it]

I have 4 100 boxes of the first run norma brass. I am up to the 8th reload on box 1 and box 2. No issues, full power, tune necks, load and shoot.