BR Match How-To?

[Phil3]

I am very new to benchrest shooting, but am learning much, with much more to learn. I am looking,and struggling) to understand how matches work, the scoring, what relays are, the time limitations, etc. Information I have found is often laced with terminology I am not familiar with, thwarting learning. I intend to go to a NBRSA match this month to learn as much as possible, but want to be as familiar as possible before I go. Is there a book, anything I can read? The NBRSA site, to be frank, is incredibly unhelpful. The rule book still uses terminology alien to me. I have ordered Mr. Ratigan's book, but any other info would be very welcome.

Thanks!

- Phil

 

[Eddie Harren]

I think you have the right idea, by going to a match. If you have questions, most shooters are willing to answer them. Please remember not to interrupt a shooter when he, or she, is loading ammo.

 

[rayjay]

"The Club BR Event" by rj [ an epic mostly non-fiction work detailing the hour by hour drama of a club br shoot ].

Friday evening 7:30. I start loading up the truck. I have a checklist so nothing is forgotten. If this is a score match I preloaded my 30BR ammo earlier in the week. I only have 25 cases for my 6PPC so I load at the range for group matches.

Saturday morning 6:00. Get up throw the rifles in the truck [ BOLTS OUT ] and to to Hardees, buy a gravy biscuit and a sausage biscuit and head to the range. 7:00 ish, arrive and eat the gravy biscuit. Unload the truck and start setting up my reloading/cleaning bench. Draw for shooting bench and pay the money.

8:00. We set up the target frames and I start setting up my bench equipment. I assemble my windflags and position them on the range. Once the targets are set I double check my rest and bag set up and the flag positioning. I reset the elevation and parallax to 200 yds. REMEMBER, BOLTS OUT .

9:00 At RBGC we shoot at 200 yds first. You have a 3 minute sight in period. Often we will end up taking longer if we have someone we can't get on paper. It can happen to anyone somewhere along the way. BOLTS OUT WHEN DONE WITH YOUR SIGHT IN.

After everyone is on paper the range master calls:

READY ON THE RIGHT READY ON THE LEFT, INSERT BOLTS, COMMENCE FIRING. He may have mentioned 7 minutes to shoot your five record shots and unlimited sighters.

The record shots are the ones that count for your group size in a group match or if a score match they are the ones in the 5 individual record bulls on the score target. One shot on each bull plus how many sighters you have ammo for. It's called score because the scoring rings have number values from 10 downward. The 'X' is the dot in the center of the 10 ring. It is used to break ties. It's points value is still just 10. A 50-5x would mean the shooter hit the dot with all 5 record shots.

Note. The firing of each target is called a 'match'. You will shoot 5 targets [ matches ] at each yardage. 25 record shots at each yardage. 50 record shots for a 100/200 yard event.

Back to the first match. At intervals the match director will call out the time remaining. If the wind is being uncooperative it is common for there to be shooters trying to wait it out. When TWO MINUTES TWO MINUTES is called the stress level really starts to rise. ONE MINUTE ONE MINUTE you gotta start making things happen. Get a sighter or two and start busting out record shots. Getting down to the THIRTY SECOND....FIFTEEN SECOND calls can get hairy.

At the end of seven minutes [ or when everyone is done ] the match director will call CEASE FIRING, REMOVE YOUR BOLTS, MAKE THE LINE SAFE. As a point of etiquette you should remove your bolt immediately after you shoot your last shot. This will let the match director know you are finished.

Next a couple of the guys go down and pull down the fired targets and put up the targets for the next match. The fired targets are then taken to the scoring shack to be scored and the results plugged into the computer. Helping change targets and helping with the data input are good ways for a newbie to learn about the little things that make up a br match and also to meet his fellow shooters. Watching the targets get scored is also educational.

There is normally 30 minutes between matches. This is the time where you can clean the bbl and reload ammo if necessary. Repeat the above four more times to complete that yardage [ 200 at Riverbend as mentioned earlier other ranges may shoot 100 first or they may only be able to accomodate 100 yd matches ].

When the 200 yd matches are done we move the target frames to the 100 yd line. Another thing the newbie should be involved in. Next everyone resets their windflags and does any adjustments needed for the rests and bags. Eat lunch about now also[ mmmm, sausage biscuit ]. Remember to reset the parallax and elevation knob [ about 4 clicks on a Leupy with 1/4 min clicks, app 8 on a Weaver with 1/8th minute clicks ].

You will get a 3 minute sight-in period for the next yardage. The matches proceed as above. At the conclusion of firing we put the BR target frames back in their shed, print out the results, pay off and congratulate the winners,'what if' with the losers, load up and go home.

 

[Phil3]

Very helpful! Thanks. A few questions about scoring.

If I understand "score" matches, I go to the bench, shoot at one target with one bull, during a 7 minute session. The target is then pulled, scored, and my 2nd of 5 targets goes up and the process repeated. If I did perfectly, I would have five targets that are all 50 - 5x. I get to shoot sighter shots at some other target any time I want?

Is the process the same for "group size" matches, except the scoring is different simply because group size is measured regardless of where on the target the group is?

A relay is a specific set of shooters who take their turn at the bench?

Still somewhat confusing to me, but appreciate your help. It would really help if I could find a photo of the targets used by NBRSA.

Thanks,

- Phil

 

[rayjay]

Below is a score target. At first you will be happy to shoot 10's. Then you will want to shoot X's with more regularity and predictability. There is a lot to learn so be ready for some minor disappointments and some major 'fist pump' moments.

At Saturday's match I shot clean with 2x, 3x, 5x, 5x, 5x = 20x. I was pumped after shooting three 5x targets in a row. I was still just in 2nd place at 100. The winner shot a 5x on the FIRST target and had 21x total. The lesson I learned is to have your condition identified and KNOW where the shot is going before ever firing the first record shot at 100. Shoot enough sighters before the first record shot to make it count. One low X count target makes winning almost impossible.

 

[rayjay]

The above target was shot last year with my Savage 112/SSS 6BR. The target below was shot last Saturday with my Viper 30BR. Notice the BIG holes !!! This was the second of the 5x targets I shot. I shoot the record targets in the order; 5-4-1-2-3. Notice how the bullet holes in bulls 5 and 4 are in the same basic location and the same for 1, 2 and 3. I probably should have adjusted my poa for bulls 2 and 3.

ETA: Also notice on the sighter target the actual POI when holding on the dot.To hit the dot on the record targets I was holding low and about dead on in windage with maybe a little rightward correction. My condition was very light from left to right which is why I had a bit less windage correction in the POA than what is shown on the sighter. Have I confused you yet ?

 

[eggman]

rayjay, that was about the best desription of a match for a newbie,or anyone for that matter) as I've read . Good job! I'm going to file that away for the next time this question comes up .I'm impressed.

Rodney

 

[Phil3]

As Lynn recommended in this thread, I watched and helped out at a 600 yard match. To those interested in the competition side of things, a personal visit to a match will clarify things immensely. Lynn was right in this regard. Still have some questions on scoring, but will ask that in another thread.

- Phil

 

[rayjay]

Phil, you have made the first [ and seemingly hardest ] step, actually going to a match and seeing that the competitors are normal humans and not supermen. Many people that would enjoy shooting in BR matches never take that first step.

 

[eggman]

Yes, Phil is on a slippery slope now. LOL! Oh, but what a ride.

Rodney

 

[Phil3]

Rayjay,

Well, actually getting to the match was tough. Leaving at 5:30 am, driving for 100+ miles, getting lost,despite GPS), etc. But, Lynn was incredibly helpful, and I am very indebted to him for that. The guys don't appear superhuman, but I might think otherwise depending on how I might shoot!

Still, the visit, while very illuminating, did point out how ignorant I am in this sport, and THAT is intimidating. Much of the banter between all the guys I am sure was informative, but it mostly was above my head, and as such was not much use to me. I felt like a 1st grader in college graduate school. Human nature being what it is, I really didn't want to show my ignorance by asking 1st grader questions in a Phd class, not withstanding how nice everyone was.

- Phil

 

[rayjay]

Phil,
Everyone of the guys at the match started at square one and they remember it. They also know that a lot of what they do is pretty esoteric and they don't mind explaining it. Most of the people that come to an event and roam around and ask questions never come back. It does discourage us but we keep talking to them .

I think that maybe there are advantages to just spectating at your first event but I also think showing up with a rifle to shoot shows the other competitors that you have a bit more spark than a lot of people. Then if you show up again at the next match you will have a foot in the door. If you show up at the next match after that you will start to just be one of the regulars. You will still feel mostly lost but your new buds will be glad to offer suggestions.

 

[Phil3]

Rayjay,

It is not hard for me to see why first time visitors don't come back, but I am trying not to be one of them.

Showing up with a rifle means a substantial investment, which means no inexpensive way to "try it out", or ease into it. Lynn has offered me to let me borrow a gun, so I really have no excuse there. Still, I think I know so little, Lord knows where my shots might go at 600 yards. At the match I attended, the last relay had a pretty stiff quarterly breeze. Few things can discourage a person faster than making a fool of themselves, which seems pretty easy with BR. There is such a vast gap between the experts and the new people.

I'll keep at it, but obviously, I need to get behind the trigger. At my first 600 yard visit, I got a decent idea of how things work at the match.

- Phil

 

[Eddie Harren]

Phil, you need to "Cowboy up" and jump in. One thing I can assure you of, you won't be the first person to "make a fool of yourself" at a BR match. Every shooter, that I know, has shot terrible at times. You will only get out of this sport what you put into it. Don't go halfway on anything.

 

[rayjay]

. Few things can discourage a person faster than making a fool of themselves, which seems pretty easy with BR. - Phil

This is the exact thing that keeps most people from shooting in their first BR match. This TOTALLY FALSE PERCEPTION that anybody else gives a DAMN how GOOD or BAD you do.

The truth is, the other shooters only care about how good or bad THEY do. Everybody has days or moments when they struggle. The only person that has never finished last is the guy that never competes. Everybody else eventually has something happen to make them score well below their capabilities. what you do is put it behind you and hope to avoid those problems in the future. Learn from it.

A lot more people screw up than win.

Even when you have a day where you have screwed up it's usually just on one target or on one yardage. There will be other targets where you were up towards the top or even number 1. Those are the little things that keep a person coming back.

 

[rayjay]

I want to add one more thing and I don't mean this to be contentious with the long range shooters.

Phil, you said your interest is 100/200 BR and I think this is probably the best place for a newbie to begin BR shooting. You can see the flags, you can see the targets just fine with nothing more than the 36x scope sitting on top of your rifle. You are more likely to shoot some 'respectable' [ for a new shooter ] scores that help the confidence. These respectable targets also create the enthusiasm that helps you put the bad scores in proper perspective.

 

[Phil3]

. Few things can discourage a person faster than making a fool of themselves, which seems pretty easy with BR. - Phil

This is the exact thing that keeps most people from shooting in their first BR match. This TOTALLY FALSE PERCEPTION that anybody else gives a DAMN how GOOD or BAD you do.

The truth is, the other shooters only care about how good or bad THEY do. Everybody has days or moments when they struggle. The only person that has never finished last is the guy that never competes. Everybody else eventually has something happen to make them score well below their capabilities. what you do is put it behind you and hope to avoid those problems in the future. Learn from it.

A lot more people screw up than win.

Even when you have a day where you have screwed up it's usually just on one target or on one yardage. There will be other targets where you were up towards the top or even number 1. Those are the little things that keep a person coming back.

Understood, and I did get the sense at the last 600 yard match I went to, that people would not laugh at the last place finisher. I don’t even know who it was.

My comment on making a fool of oneself and feeling discouraged was not just for how I place in competition, even if my message primarily referenced shooting abilities. My mistake. The fact of the matter is that I know so little, I need to ask very elementary questions, which to be frank, which does make me feel foolish and dumb. I don’t think I have done a good enough job of defining what a total newbie I am, since questions I have asked are sometimes answered with information that is still above my head. I am reluctant to post a zillion questions on this forum that are so basic, given the very high level of expertise that makes up the forum dialogue. Somewhat foolish feeling to ask this group questions like, "What is headspace or fireforming", when the normal discussions are so far above that.

- Phil

 

[Phil3]

I want to add one more thing and I don't mean this to be contentious with the long range shooters.

Phil, you said your interest is 100/200 BR and I think this is probably the best place for a newbie to begin BR shooting. You can see the flags, you can see the targets just fine with nothing more than the 36x scope sitting on top of your rifle. You are more likely to shoot some 'respectable' [ for a new shooter ] scores that help the confidence. These respectable targets also create the enthusiasm that helps you put the bad scores in proper perspective.

Rayjay,

I have sent an e-mail to my local club that does have 200 yard competitions once a month, and have asked them about the different classes, what is allowed, what isn't etc.

Shooting at the local club means shooting more often, which I know is critical. I also am leaning to purchasing either a stock Savage Long Range Precision Varminter or Savage 12 F Class. Alternatively, I can buy a Savage action and have something built for not too much more money, but not sure how to find someone to put it together. No 6PPC in these guns, but there is 6mmBR, which is I believe is the next best thing for 200 yards.

I know the equipment won't compete at NBRSA, but custom stuff may not be allowed at the local club events. If that is the case, that means having to travel a long distance to compete, which I can not do very often.

- Phil

 

[Aussie_bob]

Phil,
Can`t speak for your local club but i know at ours when someone rings and asks about shooting in our benchrest comp they are past onto one of the people who run that disipline there are two of us whe run Benchrest and if we know we have a newbie coming we make sure we have extra ammo so they can shoot a couple of targets or one distance.
In score shooting i have shared my 30BR with at least 4 shooters just so they can get a feel for the shoot and understand better what they need to buy to be competitive they now have their own rifles. Also don`t be afraid that you questions seem dumb the only dumb question is the one you didnt ask and it may be important. We all start from knowing nothing some have a parent who steer them right the others of us just have to blunder on till someone takes us by the arm and gives a helping hand. I think you will find that amoungst the Benchrest community and shooters in general there are a lot of decent people who will reach out and steer you in the right direction just dont be too quick to buy gear have a look around and find experienced people to give advice on what you are looking at there are a lot of second hand rifles over there that would suit at a good price i am pretty sure Butch Lambert has two at present coz i wouldnt mind one of them if they were here in Australia but with the aussie dollar hwere it is not a hope.

 

[Phil3]

I received an e-mail back from my local club, providing some information on classes, but also gave me a name of another person who could provide more detailed info. Still, I was told that most rifles in the 100 and 200 yard matches are custom, with guys switching barrels at the match to move to a different class, etc. I was told the winners typically put 5 shots into a dime sized group. Gulp. I don't dispute the club's assertion that these guys are deadly serious, and to compete, will warrant a high performing 6PPC rifle and equipment.

Before that happens, I need lots more education and other equipment, such as rests, reloading gear, brass, bullets, powder, tools, etc. And then knowledge to make good use of it all. Next step is to see the match at my local range. This Sunday is the next match, so will see what equipment is being used and how it all works.

- Phil