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BR Calibers Without PPC ON Their Tail - New Stuff

Something Besides a PPC
There was benchrest before the PPC.
Don't get me wrong PPC is the cats meow in the benchrest world. Those wanting to play their own game do well with other calibers but only if they themselves are capable shooters. Calibers like 6 Tall Dog, 6 BRS, 6X36, 6BR, 22 Waldog, 6x47 Lapua, 30 BR, 30 PPC all have their place. I have several benchrest barrels in great calibers. Like I said earlier I have 25+ barrels so I have a few calibers not in today's mainstream. What I have is a .222, 22PPC, 6X47, 6BRS, 6x47 Lapua. I like them all and have several of them in rail barrels 6 to be exact.
Before PPC
Registered benchrest goes back to 1950. Records were kept and in the NBRSA there were a good selection of calibers. This is 25 years before the PPC shot registered. Some of the calibers that I know were used in the early days. Before 1950 Springfield's and Mauser's saw .473 cases and whatever a Mauser could be converted to. One of the calibers I like is the .219 Donaldson Wasp. Larger than a .473 probably used in converted Springfield's and Mauser's. If you check the Sierra manual page 169 you see this was the PPC long before the PPC. 1.8" long with a 30 deg shoulder, a long PPC. This necked up to a 6mm could be a killer benchrest cartridge. In 22 it did well. Good brass is always the determining factor in sustaining a good cartridge. PPC has always had primo brass thus consistency.
The ace showed up in 1950. Remington sought a varmint cartridge that the benchrest world would accept in droves. The .222 was a consistent cartridge that was pleasant to shoot. Women shooters appreciated it's mild report so do I. My first benchrest gun was a switch barrel. A 6X47 Sherer barrel Sporter and a .222 Hart barrel HV. This was a common setup in the 1970's. By 1970 Remington had the complete gun the 40X BR in several benchrest calibers. Like the .222, 6X47, 6 International, .308. Remington had it all for benchrest. Actions, barrel, scope, cases, bullets, powders, primers and 2 well known shooter/machinists Mike Walker and Jim Stekyl.
Early Calibers Continued
Benchrest before 1957 when HV started was big gun one class. Sometime in the 1950's big gun became 2 classes when the mechanical rests separated from the bag class. The 22 calibers were dominant and many did their own gunsmithing even at the Shoots. A lot made their own 22 bullets. Walt Berger started making his own bullets in 1957 on a set of B&A 22 dies. Walt continues to this day to make 22 bullets, in my opinion the best 22 bullet on the market. I know I shot 15,000+ of Walt's 22 bullets through 1 barrel. Barrel still shoots low 2 aggs at 100yds. Hart barrel, my first barrel, rechambered to 22 PPC.
Some early 22 calibers were .222, 219, 222.7, 222 1/2. Way back when even the 30-06, 220 Swift, 22-250 and .308 had their time. Ferris Pindell used the .308 in a big gun and won.
1975
The year 1975 is one of those years that stands a little higher in benchrest lore. This was the year the PPC first won. Only 2 PPC's were shot at the 1975 NBRSA Nats. But 1 shooter was on the cusp of making the HOF. Ferris had 7 points needing 3 more. His last point had been won in the early 60's. Ferris won his last 3 points with both the 22&6 PPC at the 1975 Nats. A movement had begun but slowly, the .22 & 6X47 continued to win. By 1984 PPC dominated and continues to this date. The small base cartridges, .222,.223,6X47, set group records in the 1970's, 5 of 6 100 & 200 yd in bag guns all held until a couple years ago. But PPC sets records in the aggs.
My friend and smith Harvey Miller had a couple of great BR cartridges. His were the 22 & 6 MCR. Both based on either the .225 Win or 30-30 whichever case he could get a good lot of brass. Harvey 4 times SW Director, 1978-1990, traveled to all the Nationals he could get to. Well liked and scouraged at the same time. I was in the well liked group. I spent many days at Harvey's place while he told me of problems developing his MCR cartridges. The only problem I saw was in his trying to make bullets. Too bad he's gone we could have continued to work together, he would be old by now around Ferris's age. Needless to say he was way beyond his time with his MCR cartridges. He favored the 6 MCR because he could travel with 1 gun and shoot the 3 gun at the Nats. One of my cohorts tagged Harvey with a scandelous name even for a benchrest shooter. His tag "Miller the Killer" only because he could kill you in the SW Region shoots and fall apart at the Nats. But Harvey had a small consolation in 1978 Harvey shot the first agg at 100 yd below the .2 level. I think up to that time Pat McMillan had the lowest 100 yd BR agg ever at .2003. Harvey scorched a .1629 at Richmond for the first sub .2 agg ever. His record stayed for 10 years and today Harvey's agg would win almost every agg shot. Harvey shot his agg record with his 6 MCR in the HV class with a Sporter gun.
Harvey passed away in 1990 due to problems with medication while getting his equilibrium fixed. A true legend in California and SW Region benchrest, 4 times Director.

This is not an easy subject to write about. I can't find my Page and Newick books so a lot is by memory and archive material I have. If I left out someones favorite let me know.
Note: As Emeril would say I just went up a notch with the Harvey Miller addition. Well deserved.
Stephen Perry
 
Stephen

Another great thread.:) I'd like to add a few of the early cartridges from my collection.

The early benchrest shooters were varmint shooters first and benchrest shooters second. So, the early cartridges were naturally those used in their varmint rifles. You mentioned the one that probably won more matches than any other, the 219 WASP. Other very good ones were the 22 VARMINTER, 219 IMPROVED ZIPPER, 220 SWIFT,original & improved), 224 PFEIFER, and the various versions of the 22 LINDAHL CHUCKER. The earliest matches were just that, matches, with the primary emphasis on shooting the smallest group. It was later when the emphasis switched to aggregates and a series of matches became a tournament.

Many of the rimmed cases used to form cartridges, such as the Wasp, had their rims turned down to 30-06 size so they could be used in the bolt action rifles without having to alter the bolt face. I have many of those in my collection. The same thing is done today to many cartridges.

One thing that many shooters of today do not know is that the premier cartridges of the 1950s thru today were also originally varmint cartridges. Both the 222 Remington and the PPC had their beginnings in live-varmint rifles and were later adopted by benchrest shooters.

Keep busy on that keyboard Stephen.:comp:

Ray
 
Hi Stephen:

I think, just to clarify, that the 6x47 of the early days was not the 6x47 that's talked about on this board today. It was the 222 Rem Mag case necked up to 6mm if I remember right. They also tried the 6x45,.223 case) and 6mm/222. Never had a 6x47 but have heard they were pretty finicky. Thanks for the info.
 
The .308 Win. was a very popular BR cartridge in the 70's. Homer Culver and John Eaton both shot them very well. To this date the only person to ever win the NBRSA and IBS championshiops in the same year is John Eaton. And yes, he used the .308 Win.
 
Doc
Yes the .308 was popular back in the 1950-1970's but mostly in big guns or rails. A .308 in a Sporter is too much for most shooters and I don't feel 30 cal bullets will compete well with todays 22 & 6 bullets. The 30 BR is not breaking through in the group BR. Where you see the 30 is in Score where the little fudgy pudgy 30 bullets reach out and grab the lines and X's. I haven't seen or heard of a .308 in short range benchrest since the 1970's.
Stephen Perry
 
Cartridge Update
I always ask around at the Shoots I go to about the older cartridge. Well you guys are in luck. I shot with Stu Harvey last weekend and he told me something I didn't know about him. Most of the time when I saw a Shoot report back in the 1970-1980's they listed Stu as shooting a 6X47. Stu said he never shot a 6X47 but rather a 6X47 IMP. I would expect he had a reamer cut that gave a sharp shoulder thus more powder capacity. Stu said he had an advantage over most in that he did his own gunsmithing and made his own bullets still does.
Still looking to hear about older cartridges used in BR. Any body know of any please share. I'll ask around at the Raton Nationals coming up. Heard about a 6mm Chaparral that Pat McMillan used. Like to hear about that one from anybody.
Stephen Perry
 
StephenPerry said:
Still looking to hear about older cartridges used in BR. Any body know of any please share. Stephen Perry

Stephen

How many do you want? In my collection I have eighteen 22 caliber and 19 six millimeter BR cartridges. That doesn't include HBR and Long Range where wildcats reign. I have one of Stu Harvey's improved 6x47. I don't think he had a name for it so I labeled it as the "6x47 H&H" for Stu and Hugh Henriksen who made the reamer. ,Stu can correct me if I'm wrong on this but he seldom posts on the Forums.) I have several of the stepped-neck cartridges which most shooters of today have never heard of or seen. Also have several boxes of early benchrest bullets including Wartime bullets made by guys such as Ralph Sisk and Fred Huntington using copper 22 rimfire cases. How about the Speer Silver Bullets from the days when Speer sponsored a yearly BR tournament. Ever hear of the Calhoon Slick-Silver Double Hollow Point?

Ray
 
I doubt if any .19 made it to the BR Range. I like Varmint cartridges actually early BR cartridges were Varmint catridges like the .222 and 22PPC. What we are interested in here are are any early cartridges that came from a varmint heritage or the other way around. To steal a comment only accurate guns are interesting. Thanks for your interest.
Stephen Perry
 
6X36
The 6X36 is a cartridge Bob Brackney uses in his rail gun. I think it is a 6BR shortened to 36 mm case dimensions made to Bob's specs. I don't know if he uses the cartridge in his bag guns but I imagine so. Bob does all his smithing so something out the norm is norm for Bob. Bob is well known for using his own custom Rem 700 actions and triggers. I have shot rails with Bob many times several times side by side. There is nobody of Bob's better in benchrest gunsmithing. I felt he wrote the best article on benchrest rifles back in the 1970's for Rifle magazine. The article discussed how to compete in all the bag classes with equipment of the day. Excellent description on switching barrels like mine. If I can dig it out of my collection I will try and scan the Brackney article in Rifle magazine.
Stephen Perry
 
StephenPerry said:
I doubt if any .19 made it to the BR Range. I like Varmint cartridges actually early BR cartridges were Varmint catridges like the .222 and 22PPC. What we are interested in here are are any early cartridges that came from a varmint heritage or the otherw ay around. To steal a comment only accurate guns are interesting. Thanks for your interest.
Stephen Perry

Stephen

Don't be surprised if you see 19 or 17 calibers at a BR match soon. All it takes are good barrels and good bullets. We are already seeing the 20 calibers. At least three 20s that I know of have been shot in competition.

At the risk of repeating myself, ALL of the early Benchrest cartridges were originally live-varmint cartridges. You are correct that the 222 was originally designed as a varmint cartridge but I believe the 22 PPC was a Benchrest cartridge from the beginning, unlike the 6PPC which started as a live-varmint cartridge. If you like to think that the 220 Russian is the parent of all PPCs, then the Russian was actually a running-deer cartridge in Russia and Finland and was neither a benchrest nor a varmint cartridge.

And, the BR is a 39mm case to begin with. So any 6x39 wildcat would have to be changed in some way other than length.

Ray
 
6X36
OK a couple 3 mm shorter than a 6X39 made off a 6 BR by Bob Brackney, case shape different. I have a 6 BRS made off 7 BR cases turned to 6 PPC head size. The book says a 6 BR should measure 1.56 my 6 BRS measures 1.42. Nice case works well with H 322.
I will see Bob Brackney in Raton and ask him if he is still shooting his cartridge. The 22 PPC was a varmint cartridge used by Palmisano and Pindell before it hit the BR scene. I can imagine Dan Pawlak gave it a spin in the fields also. Could have easily have been the 22 PPPC. The observation here is that cartridges can be simultaneously be a Varmint cartridge and a BR cartridge at the same time.
Stephen Perry
 
StephenPerry said:
The 22 PPC was a varmint cartridge used by Palmisano and Pindell before it hit the BR scene. I can imagine Dan Pawlak gave it a spin in the fields also. Could have easily have been the 22 PPPC.Stephen Perry

Stephen

Dr Lou's original cartridge was made from shortened 220 Swift brass and was 6mm. He later made it from SAKO 220 Russian brass. Took it to Super Shoot II where he met Ferris Pindell. The two of them collaborated resulting in the 22 caliber version. Pindell was never a live-varmint shooter. Pawlack did a lot of the lab testing and refining during the year between SS II and SS III but I don't think there's any evidence that any of the 3 guys used the 22 PPC for live varmints.

Sorry to keep putting my nose into your thread but as a shooter, cartridge collector, and amateur historian, I can't stand it.

Ray
 
Ray
Let me know when you get all the facts straight most BR shooters know the story you have been telling. Some of mine comes from Perry Morton and Harold Lawrence who knew Pindell better than most. I know his Sierra bullet days. You need another history book. You are starting to bore me Ray. Write some of your own Threads or can you.
Stephen Perry
 
Stephen

I thought you had grown up and changed your ways but I see you are heading down the same road that got you banned from the other Forum. So, I'll bow out.

Ray
 
You need to Ray. Sorry shooters this is left over crap from another Forum. You deserve better. Editor please make a note of these Posts I will not respond to this person from now on but I will be available for the rest of the shooters. Besides I have to finish making bullets so I can go to the Range and do the real thing. Happy B'day to me.
Stephen Perry
 
StephenPerry said:
You need to Ray. Sorry shooters this is left over crap from another Forum.Stephen Perry

I know, I know, I said I was bowing out. But I can't let this go on a false note. For the record I was not involved in any way with Stephen's getting booted off the other Forum. There were absolutely zero, nada, posts between us. For him to imply or infer otherwise is dishonest.

Ray Meketa
Linden AZ
 
30 BR
This is the cartridge of choice with the Score shooting crowd. Some interest among the group shooting crowd. This is one those wait and see cartridge. The accuracy is there for Score but time will tell if it will be the agg buster I hear about.
Shooters there are as many wildcats out there as sheets on a roll of toilet paper. Which one is yours.
Stephen Perry
 
Shooters
Bringing this back to chew on because it one of my best Threads. Hope you guys enjoy it again and for you guys new to 6mmBR this ones a treat.
Now that we are approaching the 2006 BR season yes we will have a new look. The 30BR and maybe 30PPC will take the step that the PPC took back in the early 70's. I don't have the resources or interest to shoot a 30 in benchrest. But some will. Recoil will be the deciding factor for most. A full race 6 PPC in a Sporter is a enough to handle shooting free recoil. I would expect the guys shooting a 30 will have to hold the gun to get through a days shooting.
Bullet availability will slow some down. Unlike 22 & 6 bullets which almost all bullet makers make there are alot less who make 30's but good 30 bullets are out there. The industry will tool up for 30 if there is a demand. No prediction here. Just happy with what I have.
Stephen Perry
 

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