Bore Solvent
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- Start date
Preacher
Gold $$ Contributor
Thanks to donovan I now have 3 bottles of that Warthog stuff, and it sure enough worked in a old ratty barrel that was toasted and plain old filthy, and the end of the barrel looked like it was painted with a copper colored paint.
About a 1/4 hour was devoted to cleaning it up and it's now probably the cleanest I have until I can get to the rest of them...
I tried to see if it would improve one of my squeaky clean Butches cleaned barrels but it didn't seem to remove anything, but I never let it get really bad anyways...
This Warthog stuff sure seems to work fast and easy, just like stated.....
About a 1/4 hour was devoted to cleaning it up and it's now probably the cleanest I have until I can get to the rest of them...
I tried to see if it would improve one of my squeaky clean Butches cleaned barrels but it didn't seem to remove anything, but I never let it get really bad anyways...
This Warthog stuff sure seems to work fast and easy, just like stated.....
Have you tied the new Bore Tech Copper Remover CU+2, I have several bottles of it and it works great.
It is the best I have ever seen.
Thanks,
Shawn McKenna
It is the best I have ever seen.
Thanks,
Shawn McKenna
Forum Boss
Administrator
I'm glad to see Warthog on the market. I respect the comments made above. It's great if the stuff really works.
However, I question some of the results in Warthog's comparison tests.
Specifically, Warthog's inventor tested copper-eating power by dropping bullets in a 100% solution of various solvents for 24 hours.
He claimed Warthog removed 2.6 grains of Copper, and the next best, Butches and Barnes, removed just 0.2 grains.
He also dicked around with WipeOut, ending up with 0.1 grains copper removal.
Well guys, I, personally did a similar test with Wipe-Out two years ago. I simply sprayed foam in a plastic cup and waited till the bubbles dissipated and you have the consistency of water.
After 24 hours in the Wipe-Out solution, 0.8 grains of copper was removed by Wipe-Out.
Here is the proof. Look for yourself.
Check out the finish on that bullet after 24 hours.
NOTE: It was very obvious that Wipe-Out had removed a lot of copper. There was a film of copper precipitates in the film canister, and the bullet had a dull finish as if it had been bead-blasted.
Note: I'm not selling any of these products.
Wart-Hog may work great. That's cool. But I have zero confidence in the accuracy of its inventor's testing on this page: http://warthog1134.com/Warthog_Test_2.htm
On that page he tests WipeOut and also claims:
Bullet #1: Montana Extreme 50 BMG
139.7 Grains Before the test.
139.7 Grains After the test.
000.0 Grains lost.
Sorry, don't believe that either.
Anybody got 50 BMG to repeat that test?
However, I question some of the results in Warthog's comparison tests.
Specifically, Warthog's inventor tested copper-eating power by dropping bullets in a 100% solution of various solvents for 24 hours.
He claimed Warthog removed 2.6 grains of Copper, and the next best, Butches and Barnes, removed just 0.2 grains.
He also dicked around with WipeOut, ending up with 0.1 grains copper removal.
Well guys, I, personally did a similar test with Wipe-Out two years ago. I simply sprayed foam in a plastic cup and waited till the bubbles dissipated and you have the consistency of water.
After 24 hours in the Wipe-Out solution, 0.8 grains of copper was removed by Wipe-Out.
Here is the proof. Look for yourself.
Check out the finish on that bullet after 24 hours.
NOTE: It was very obvious that Wipe-Out had removed a lot of copper. There was a film of copper precipitates in the film canister, and the bullet had a dull finish as if it had been bead-blasted.
Note: I'm not selling any of these products.
Wart-Hog may work great. That's cool. But I have zero confidence in the accuracy of its inventor's testing on this page: http://warthog1134.com/Warthog_Test_2.htm
On that page he tests WipeOut and also claims:
Bullet #1: Montana Extreme 50 BMG
139.7 Grains Before the test.
139.7 Grains After the test.
000.0 Grains lost.
Sorry, don't believe that either.
Anybody got 50 BMG to repeat that test?
Sorry but most folks think they have a clean tube when they don't... Unless you have a bore scope you are guessing period end of story. The copper gets layered in the barrel along with fouling including the dreaded carbon and the Hated Carbon Ring! The best of the solvents along with all the brushing you care to do will not remove it.
Use Iosso or JB on on of the Iosso brushes to get out everything after you get a clean patch with the solvent. Looked thru too many bores with my scope and btw have seen many a grown man almost in tears when they looked at what they "thought" was a clean barrel. The Hawkeye does not lie...
Use Iosso or JB on on of the Iosso brushes to get out everything after you get a clean patch with the solvent. Looked thru too many bores with my scope and btw have seen many a grown man almost in tears when they looked at what they "thought" was a clean barrel. The Hawkeye does not lie...
Forum Boss
Administrator
I bore-scoped my barrel last week with a Hawkeye. There is no copper fouling, no dreaded carbon ring, and the throat was pristine.
My cleaning method has been 3-4 wet patches, following by a two-application, 3-hour soak of Wipe-Out after 40-50 rounds. I have never used a brush or JB.
Other barrels certainly can require a more aggressive cleaning routine, but, so far, this has worked for my 3-groove PacNor.
I would be cautious with any abrasive. I have seen lands rounded by use of JB.
Regarding the borescope--yes it does not lie, but do not assume that a perfectly clean, carbonless barrel will shoot best.
The borescope is a great tool, but it does encourage some shooters to clean more than is necessary, or even desirable.
My cleaning method has been 3-4 wet patches, following by a two-application, 3-hour soak of Wipe-Out after 40-50 rounds. I have never used a brush or JB.
Other barrels certainly can require a more aggressive cleaning routine, but, so far, this has worked for my 3-groove PacNor.
I would be cautious with any abrasive. I have seen lands rounded by use of JB.
Regarding the borescope--yes it does not lie, but do not assume that a perfectly clean, carbonless barrel will shoot best.
The borescope is a great tool, but it does encourage some shooters to clean more than is necessary, or even desirable.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it but I compete and like to win. Unfortunately, I have seen too much empirical data to show that your method does not work. I am not calling you a liar but I have seen it with my own eyes too many times. more over do not know of anyone who competes in 1K BR that uses your method and believe me ------ if it works people will gravitate to it.
People who have spent a large part of their life in the pursuit of accuracy and all of the things that have a bearing on it would use your method if it worked. How many rifles or tubes have you scoped over time using your method?
Again my data shows different and yes I have tried the Wipe Out and I use Iosso not JB,know of a few that do well with it as well as Witches Brew and it works like a charm) now any IDIOT can misuse a product and ruin a barrel so that is not a good analogy.
The proper use of any tool or process is paramount to being successful in any endeavor that requires the use of it period.
Your last statement is particularing disturbing and unfortunately exposes your lack of knowledge of what the bore scope is used for. Used PROPERLY the scope will tell you what processes and products will enable you to keep you tube in prime condition to deliver better accuracy and longer life.
You can send some folks to school with covers on thier books and they will just eat the covers off of them but that does not make the book bad now does it? lol--that is supposed to be funny!
People who have spent a large part of their life in the pursuit of accuracy and all of the things that have a bearing on it would use your method if it worked. How many rifles or tubes have you scoped over time using your method?
Again my data shows different and yes I have tried the Wipe Out and I use Iosso not JB,know of a few that do well with it as well as Witches Brew and it works like a charm) now any IDIOT can misuse a product and ruin a barrel so that is not a good analogy.
The proper use of any tool or process is paramount to being successful in any endeavor that requires the use of it period.
Your last statement is particularing disturbing and unfortunately exposes your lack of knowledge of what the bore scope is used for. Used PROPERLY the scope will tell you what processes and products will enable you to keep you tube in prime condition to deliver better accuracy and longer life.
You can send some folks to school with covers on thier books and they will just eat the covers off of them but that does not make the book bad now does it? lol--that is supposed to be funny!
Forum Boss
Administrator
Many matches have been won with barrels on which JB or Iosso is used. Jason Baney has found it effective in dealing with carbon.
Each barrel has its own particular needs and requirements. This is dependent on many factors. Some barrels perform optimally with a no-brushing, or minimal brushing routine. Other barrels benefit from brushing and regular application of JB.
Re the minimal cleaning method, Jerry Tierney just won the NBRSA 600-yard Nationals using a barrel that had never had a brush in it. Jerry is also a previous 1K National Winner and he shot the entire match without brushing or JB'ing.
My point is simply, as stated before, is to "be cautious" with the use of any abrasive. Also, that some barrels WILL perform best with some degree of carbon fouling in the bore. But each barrel is different.
Just last month, shooting a benchrest rifle in a tunnel, we saw a gun transformed from shooting low ones and zeros at 100 yards into a rifle that could not hold half-MOA. The change was caused by a very aggressive cleaning with bronze brushes followed by Iosso paste. After a dozen foulers the barrel had still not regained its previous accuracy. That particular barrel shot its best groups with 40+ rounds through the barrel since it had been cleaned.
My concern is that I have seen numerous folks come to a match and scrub a barrel raw after 15 rounds fired, then follow with abrasives. Before resorting to that kind of cleaning regimen, you should find what your barrel likes and then proceed accordingly.
Slowpoke, if your methods have produced good results in competition--that's great and there's no need to change. For others I would advise them to proceed with caution and, as noted before, don't assume automatically that cleaning down to bare steel will yield the best accuracy in all barrels.
There are many views on barrel cleaning. That's why, when we created an article on the subject, we polled numerous top shooters, barrel-makers, and gunsmiths. It is an interesting read because there are many different viewpoints expressed.
LINK TO ARTICLE: http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html
You wrote: "Your last statement is particularing disturbing and unfortunately exposes your lack of knowledge of what the bore scope is used for. Used PROPERLY the scope will tell you what processes and products will enable you to keep you tube in prime condition to deliver better accuracy and longer life."
Re borescopes, many top shooters and gunsmiths have told me that they themselves "over-reacted" after acquiring their borescope. Since it enabled them to see even the most tiny trace of fouling, they became much more aggressive in cleaning, in the pursuit of a barrel that looked like a steel mirror from breech to muzzle. Many of these same folks observed that they had "gone overboard" and that it proved counter-productive to clean that aggressively. This is not a knock on the borescope--it is an invaluable tool. But the borescope's ability to reveal so much sometimes inspires cleaning to a point where an excessive number of fouling shots are needed to return to the "sweet spot".
Each barrel has its own particular needs and requirements. This is dependent on many factors. Some barrels perform optimally with a no-brushing, or minimal brushing routine. Other barrels benefit from brushing and regular application of JB.
Re the minimal cleaning method, Jerry Tierney just won the NBRSA 600-yard Nationals using a barrel that had never had a brush in it. Jerry is also a previous 1K National Winner and he shot the entire match without brushing or JB'ing.
My point is simply, as stated before, is to "be cautious" with the use of any abrasive. Also, that some barrels WILL perform best with some degree of carbon fouling in the bore. But each barrel is different.
Just last month, shooting a benchrest rifle in a tunnel, we saw a gun transformed from shooting low ones and zeros at 100 yards into a rifle that could not hold half-MOA. The change was caused by a very aggressive cleaning with bronze brushes followed by Iosso paste. After a dozen foulers the barrel had still not regained its previous accuracy. That particular barrel shot its best groups with 40+ rounds through the barrel since it had been cleaned.
My concern is that I have seen numerous folks come to a match and scrub a barrel raw after 15 rounds fired, then follow with abrasives. Before resorting to that kind of cleaning regimen, you should find what your barrel likes and then proceed accordingly.
Slowpoke, if your methods have produced good results in competition--that's great and there's no need to change. For others I would advise them to proceed with caution and, as noted before, don't assume automatically that cleaning down to bare steel will yield the best accuracy in all barrels.
There are many views on barrel cleaning. That's why, when we created an article on the subject, we polled numerous top shooters, barrel-makers, and gunsmiths. It is an interesting read because there are many different viewpoints expressed.
LINK TO ARTICLE: http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html
You wrote: "Your last statement is particularing disturbing and unfortunately exposes your lack of knowledge of what the bore scope is used for. Used PROPERLY the scope will tell you what processes and products will enable you to keep you tube in prime condition to deliver better accuracy and longer life."
Re borescopes, many top shooters and gunsmiths have told me that they themselves "over-reacted" after acquiring their borescope. Since it enabled them to see even the most tiny trace of fouling, they became much more aggressive in cleaning, in the pursuit of a barrel that looked like a steel mirror from breech to muzzle. Many of these same folks observed that they had "gone overboard" and that it proved counter-productive to clean that aggressively. This is not a knock on the borescope--it is an invaluable tool. But the borescope's ability to reveal so much sometimes inspires cleaning to a point where an excessive number of fouling shots are needed to return to the "sweet spot".
I understand your position and can respect that. In the real world cleaning Done The Right Way and most do not unfortunately have the right tools,or even the knowledge to use them correctly) to compare results of one process over the other will help in your quest to win in the field or at the bench.
I will agree that different barrels esp from different makers will foul and react to cleaning differently. That is why I use only one maker for my competition tubes and almost all of my sporters.
To each his own and in the end it is all about putting the projectile in the center of the bull or whatever target you shoot at. I have a safe full of tubes on various rifles both sporter and competition all by the same barrel maker,save a couple) and smith. Very coincidental that all from the 338 Lapua Improved to the 6.5x284 react to cleaning meathods and processes almost exactly the same way.
Maybe I am just lucky----or maybe there is something to working your process and procedures around a baseline hmmmmm something to think about for sure.
I will agree that different barrels esp from different makers will foul and react to cleaning differently. That is why I use only one maker for my competition tubes and almost all of my sporters.
To each his own and in the end it is all about putting the projectile in the center of the bull or whatever target you shoot at. I have a safe full of tubes on various rifles both sporter and competition all by the same barrel maker,save a couple) and smith. Very coincidental that all from the 338 Lapua Improved to the 6.5x284 react to cleaning meathods and processes almost exactly the same way.
Maybe I am just lucky----or maybe there is something to working your process and procedures around a baseline hmmmmm something to think about for sure.
Donovan,
If you have verified you comments above with a bore scope then I am going to order some to try... Always the first in line to try a better product if it really works.
One thing that will make your brushes last longer is when you pull them out of the bore guide immediately give them a blast of brake cleaner to clean them off. Has increased the life of my brushes orders of magnitude.
If you have verified you comments above with a bore scope then I am going to order some to try... Always the first in line to try a better product if it really works.
One thing that will make your brushes last longer is when you pull them out of the bore guide immediately give them a blast of brake cleaner to clean them off. Has increased the life of my brushes orders of magnitude.
Thanks!!!!! Where is the easiest place to order this stuff from?
I just went to their site and it is a copper only --- no mention made of carbon removal. In your scope did you shoot enough to see any carbon or fouling in the bottom of the grooves that was removed completely?
Believe it would be interesting to hear some input about barrel cleaning from the gunnies who head up the Army and Marine marksmanship teams. They shoot a lot more than any of us and their jobs, keeping their position on the team, as well as shooting results depend on their cleaning routines. I watched a military marksmanship team gunnery sergeant clean his rifle at an Oak Ridge meet 2-3 years ago and I would have sworn that his mission was to remove all the lands from the barrel. As I recall, His primary "fluids" were Hoppes and a bottle of off-the-shelf hydrogen peroxide.
Preacher
Gold $$ Contributor
What kind of smell does Warthog have? Is it bad? At 20 bucks for a 4oz. bottle it should be very good.
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It sure don't smell as nice as Hoppe's does, but it work tons better....
Lots of ammonia smell but not sure of the amount......
I had a Canadian cleaner, COPPER MELT ) a few years back that smelled as bad but didn't work as easy... and was quite pricy too......
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It sure don't smell as nice as Hoppe's does, but it work tons better....
Lots of ammonia smell but not sure of the amount......
I had a Canadian cleaner, COPPER MELT ) a few years back that smelled as bad but didn't work as easy... and was quite pricy too......
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