Bore scoped my rifles

[Coyotefurharvester]

Nice thing about the camera, a few cases of different lengths and you have a pretty good idea about trim length setting.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Id like to keep them around 5 off when trimmed. Just don't know exactly where it stops.

 

[JMayo]

The 6 CM are probably the longest. I was just going to ask where do you let the cases get to the max length before trimming? Is it right before that black ring, or right at the end of it?

To me Pic 1 looks good, pic 2 & 3 the case mouth looks bottomed out in chamber.
The case mouths will tighten up on the bullet when jammed up the barrel by the bolt & locking the bolt will be harder.

 

[K22]

What do I say? I say four things:

1. If your cleaning process is meeting your performance requirements, then end of issue. It's than simple.

2. The optimum cleaning procedure for YOU is the one YOU developed and tested to meet your performance needs. For example, I clean my centerfire rifles every 50 to 60 rounds with a bronze brush and simple solvent. I have no first shot flyers, no cold bore flyers, and all my rifles shoot to varmint grade precision.

3. Stop reading the internet cleaning threads.

4. Put your bore scope in the closet and you will sleep better plus avoid damaging aggressive cleaning solvents / methods that will shorten your barrel life or ruined it.


PS: Do you think Elmer Keith or Jack O'Connor was concerned about a "carbon ring"? What did precision shooters do before there were bore scopes?

 

[Steve Donlon]

Exactly. 45 is what I use. If you keep rotating it you can pull it out without a problem.

Yeah, maybe old school but I'm a recovering barrel cleaner. I used scrub and scrub and use Iosso to get the last of it out. Never made a difference on the target that I could tell so I've scaled back my cleaning significantly. I do check with a bore scope periodically and I do run Iosso occasionally as well. Depends on the gun and how likely it is to lay down a lot of carbon.

I know what you are saying and it's easy to go overboard. Some of my barrels are really good barrels and will stay very clean with a minimum amount of brushing if I clean them every time after I shoot. Never need any abrasives. We don't need to get every speck of carbon out but it's also not a good idea to let them get to the point of needing to resort to using abrasives unless you have no other choice. Like some Savage barrels. Way to much work to try and make them look new again when they shoot great with some carbon.

 

[divingin]

PS: Do you think Elmer Keith or Jack O'Connor was concerned about a "carbon ring"? What did precision shooters do before there were bore scopes?

Keith was more of a handgunner, and big game hunter. O'Connor was a big game hunter as well. Not sure either parallels the discussion here, which seems to be more towards precision target shooting (though maybe that's just how I'm reading it.)

That said, everyone starts somewhere, and asking for opinions is part of learning. I'm referring to your point #2 here: The more opinions you receive the more likely you'll find something that improves your results.

 

[Steve Donlon]

What do I say? I say four things:

1. If your cleaning process is meeting your performance requirements, then end of issue. It's than simple.

2. The optimum cleaning procedure for YOU is the one YOU developed and tested to meet your performance needs. For example, I clean my centerfire rifles every 50 to 60 rounds with a bronze brush and simple solvent. I have no first shot flyers, no cold bore flyers, and all my rifles shoot to varmint grade precision.

3. Stop reading the internet cleaning threads.

4. Put your bore scope in the closet and you will sleep better plus avoid damaging aggressive cleaning solvents / methods that will shorten your barrel life or ruined it.


PS: Do you think Elmer Keith or Jack O'Connor was concerned about a "carbon ring"? What did precision shooters do before there were bore scopes?

I think Elmer Keith and Jack O'Connor waited until they saw pressure signs or their accuracy feel off or they could feel the carbon ring when cleaning before we had bore scopes. It's easier to deal with them before they get to that stage. But it is easy to go crazy after looking at your bore through a bore scope.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

The black line is an angle surface just past the case mouth. See the gold dots. 6cm chamber drawning.

 

[358WCF]

It looks like you have rings happening if it's not a shadow. It appears too wide for a shadow. Maybe not at the point of troubles yet, but it will be a serious bitch to remove when it gets worse. Do as you wish, but it's easier to keep on top of some things before they go full tilt wrong.

Below-my 22-250 Ackley with approx 1600 rnds of mine, plus unknown from previous owner & just regular cleaning (Shooters Choice & bronze brush every 20 rnds or so) over 3 decades. Ignorance was bliss until it stopped shooting small & bolt lift got noticeable over time using same load with same lots of components. Case mouths had signs of a slight crimp after firing & bullets would not slip into fired case mouths. It's why I got a Teslong. Yes, the barrel is toast, but it was another learning experience.

Carbon ring-case chambered. Red arrow is for indexing with next pic.


Carbon ring case backed up a bit


Chamber end c. 100 rounds after fairly thorough cleaning (but still not to bare metal... my arm got tired). Note sharper edge at end of chamber & no chunky deposits. Unfortunately not indexed with above pics. That's a piece of patch lint.


Here's a case at book max length (1.912").

 

[jelenko]

That looks like serious carbon build up at the beginning of the lands, yes?

 

[urbanrifleman]

It looks like you have rings happening if it's not a shadow. It appears too wide for a shadow. Maybe not at the point of troubles yet, but it will be a serious bitch to remove when it gets worse. Do as you wish, but it's easier to keep on top of some things before they go full tilt wrong.

Below-my 22-250 Ackley with approx 1600 rnds of mine, plus unknown from previous owner & just regular cleaning (Shooters Choice & bronze brush every 20 rnds or so) over 3 decades. Ignorance was bliss until it stopped shooting small & bolt lift got noticeable over time using same load with same lots of components. Case mouths had signs of a slight crimp after firing & bullets would not slip into fired case mouths. It's why I got a Teslong. Yes, the barrel is toast, but it was another learning experience.

Carbon ring-case chambered. Red arrow is for indexing with next pic.
View attachment 1666596

Carbon ring case backed up a bit
View attachment 1666597

Chamber end c. 100 rounds after fairly thorough cleaning (but still not to bare metal... my arm got tired). Note sharper edge at end of chamber & no chunky deposits. Unfortunately not indexed with above pics. That's a piece of patch lint.
View attachment 1666598

Here's a case at book max length (1.912").
View attachment 1666616

That feller gave you all it had.

 

[ronsatspokane]

It looks like you have rings happening if it's not a shadow. It appears too wide for a shadow. Maybe not at the point of troubles yet, but it will be a serious bitch to remove when it gets worse. Do as you wish, but it's easier to keep on top of some things before they go full tilt wrong.

Below-my 22-250 Ackley with approx 1600 rnds of mine, plus unknown from previous owner & just regular cleaning (Shooters Choice & bronze brush every 20 rnds or so) over 3 decades. Ignorance was bliss until it stopped shooting small & bolt lift got noticeable over time using same load with same lots of components. Case mouths had signs of a slight crimp after firing & bullets would not slip into fired case mouths. It's why I got a Teslong. Yes, the barrel is toast, but it was another learning experience.

Carbon ring-case chambered. Red arrow is for indexing with next pic.
View attachment 1666596

Carbon ring case backed up a bit
View attachment 1666597

Chamber end c. 100 rounds after fairly thorough cleaning (but still not to bare metal... my arm got tired). Note sharper edge at end of chamber & no chunky deposits. Unfortunately not indexed with above pics. That's a piece of patch lint.
View attachment 1666598

Here's a case at book max length (1.912").
View attachment 1666616

In your first to pics, move the arrow to the right. The area right before the throat (which is what your arrows are point at) is the carbon ring. Right were the brass ends is the ring. The throat shows significant fire cracking in a gun that appears to have been fired a lot. No chunks are missing be it won't be long.

 

[snert]

You pay your money and you play your game your way. As long as you are satisfied with your cleaning I guess that is all that matters.

I know you didn't ask, but I just dont understand why you would pay for custom barrels and all the benefits of them (including easy cleaning) and then not clean them?

Just shoot a factory barrel.

 

[DShortt]

I'd add trying to evaluate a carbon ring by only looking at the chamber with the fired case in the chamber is not the way I'd go about it.
I'd compare both case chambered and case removed images.
Having said that, based on the images provided, there's a lot of carbon in there. A traditional carbon ring? Not so much which seems...... peculiar.
Are those cases fully chambered with the bolt closed? Or just loosely inserted?

 

[kyotekiller25]

You pay your money and you play your game your way. As long as you are satisfied with your cleaning I guess that is all that matters.

I know you didn't ask, but I just dont understand why you would pay for custom barrels and all the benefits of them (including easy cleaning) and then not clean them?

Just shoot a factory barrel.

I'm just of the thoughts not to clean unless you need to. In my case, these rifles all still shoot consistent 1/2 MOA or better, so there's no need. I use to clean quite often, I just don't anymore. I don't think going 100-300 rounds between cleaning is unheard of, but that's just my opinion.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I'd add trying to evaluate a carbon ring by only looking at the chamber with the fired case in the chamber is not the way I'd go about it.
I'd compare both case chambered and case removed images.
Having said that, based on the images provided, there's a lot of carbon in there. A traditional carbon ring? Not so much which seems...... peculiar.
Are those cases fully chambered with the bolt closed? Or just loosely inserted?

I started by scoping them all without a case, but was having trouble finding the "rings" so thats when I chambered cases in them, and they are fully chambered with the bolt closed. Plus I wanted to see how long they were in my chamber.

I can take pictures of them all without a case if that would help. But the general consensus seems to be that I have carbon either way.

I've been shooting for almost 30 years and never had any issues or gave these carbon rings any thought. I've shot out several barrels that never gave me any issues with my cleaning regimen either.

I think bore scopes almost cause more problems and headache than anything. Causes a guy to start worrying about things and chasing his tail...

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I would clean and flush the chamber(s) in all your rifles.

 

[K22]

Keith was more of a handgunner, and big game hunter. O'Connor was a big game hunter as well. Not sure either parallels the discussion here, which seems to be more towards precision target shooting (though maybe that's just how I'm reading it.)

That said, everyone starts somewhere, and asking for opinions is part of learning. I'm referring to your point #2 here: The more opinions you receive the more likely you'll find something that improves your results.

All true - just trying to save the OP some sleepless nights.

For his purposes, I do not believe that he needs to go to extreme measures IF what he is doing and has been doing is working for him. In other words, don't go looking for a "fix" if it ain't broken.

 

[divingin]

For his purposes, I do not believe that he needs to go to extreme measures IF what he is doing and has been doing is working for him. In other words, don't go looking for a "fix" if it ain't broken.

I agree to an extent, but that is also how you improve processes. It may work as it is, but experimentation *could* lead to it working better, cheaper, easier, or faster. And those are usually good things.

 

[Shifty6br]

Lately I've been messing around with running a boresnake thru my barrels when they are warm...not hot but luke warm at the range. These without the little plastic lead in.

It's been doing wonders keeping carbon build up under control out of the chamber area and throughout the bore in between deep cleanings. As an after affect it allows me more time in between deep cleanings.

Warn snake after range visit..