Bore scoped my rifles

[kyotekiller25]

Decided to bore scope each of my rifles today out of curiosity sake and try to find or see about these carbon rings I always hear about. I'm not even totally sure what I'm looking for. I chambered a fired case on each and took a picture of where I think the ring would be. I rarely clean my rifles. When they stop shooting under MOA, then I'll clean. Wipeout with a nylon brush and that's about it. Some back history and specs on each rifle. I also don't break in custom barrels as there is no need. The AR15 has a krieger barrel with about 800 rounds through it. I bought it used with around 700 through it. I haven't cleaned it since I bought it. The R700 223 wylde has a Bartlein with around 300 total rounds fired. I cleaned it after 100 rounds and that was it. So approx 200 rounds down since cleaning. The 6 Creed has a BRUX with 105 rounds down it. I have not cleaned it yet. The 7-300 has a Bartlein with around 400 total rounds on it. I've only cleaned this rifle 3 times, with the last time being 200 rounds ago. It still shoots stupid small groups so I see no reason to clean it. What do you guys think?

 

[Clancy]

If you’re not trying to shoot small groups, there’s not much need in cleaning all the time. If you are, a regular cleaning regimen is necessary.

You’ve got two real nice carbon rings, one building and ironically not much happening with the big boomer unless that powder leaves a light colored signature. [edit: I see it now, make it 3 really nice rings.] Carbon rings will eventually cause problems, and they tend to get mad in a hurry.

Wipeout and a nylon brush isn’t doing a lot unless you’re running a lot of cycles with it. I’d at least switch to bronze.

I have a dear friend who’s an excellent marksman and he doesn’t clean much, but when he does it’s a 2 day soak and there’s a lot of Iosso involved. Call me crazy…. but I like to clean often enough that it takes 15 minutes. I see much better day to day accuracy than my friend does. He sees a little more barrel life.

 

[jackieschmidt]

If you are happy, what does it matter what somebody else thinks.

As a Short Range Benchrest Shooter, I doubt I let 15 rounds go down a barrel without cleaning.

That is 180 degrees opposite from what you do.

 

[DShortt]

If you’re not trying to shoot small groups, there’s not much need in cleaning all the time. If you are, a regular cleaning regimen is necessary.

You’ve got two real nice carbon rings, one building and ironically not much happening with the big boomer unless that powder leaves a light colored signature. [edit: I see it now, make it 3 really nice rings.] Carbon rings will eventually cause problems, and they tend to get mad in a hurry.

Wipeout and a nylon brush isn’t doing a lot unless you’re running a lot of cycles with it. I’d at least switch to bronze.

I have a dear friend who’s an excellent marksman and he doesn’t clean much, but when he does it’s a 2 day soak and there’s a lot of Iosso involved. Call me crazy…. but I like to clean often enough that it takes 15 minutes. I see much better day to day accuracy than my friend does. He sees a little more barrel life.

Completely agree with the above and the image observations in particular.

Those images are a bit confusing though. Do you have a fired case in the chamber and the scope run in from the muzzle? Because it sure looks like it.

 

[Steve Donlon]

A friend of mine shoots Ar rifles with me and cleans the bore about as often as you. When the carbon ring got big enough, it kept the round from chambering all the way in but far enough for it to ignite the primer and blow the case in half right above the extractor groove and weld the extractor to the base of the case and lockup his bolt. He had to beat it open to repair the bolt. It blew the magazine out of the mag well in pieces. I think he learned his lesson. The longer you wait, the worse the situation becomes and the cleaning will be a real chore.

 

[Sandstorm]

Right you are Steve....Seen the exact same thing before...not too funny, and not if its your rifle or
life were talking about.

 

[kyotekiller25]

If you’re not trying to shoot small groups, there’s not much need in cleaning all the time. If you are, a regular cleaning regimen is necessary.

You’ve got two real nice carbon rings, one building and ironically not much happening with the big boomer unless that powder leaves a light colored signature. [edit: I see it now, make it 3 really nice rings.] Carbon rings will eventually cause problems, and they tend to get mad in a hurry.

Wipeout and a nylon brush isn’t doing a lot unless you’re running a lot of cycles with it. I’d at least switch to bronze.

I have a dear friend who’s an excellent marksman and he doesn’t clean much, but when he does it’s a 2 day soak and there’s a lot of Iosso involved. Call me crazy…. but I like to clean often enough that it takes 15 minutes. I see much better day to day accuracy than my friend does. He sees a little more barrel life.

So the only cartridge that has a carbon ring is the 7-300 then if I'm understanding you right? And theres 3 of them you say? I've only used H1000 in the 7-300. It's a middle of the road load at 72.5g with a 180g ELDM at 3000fps and 1/2 MOA out to 1200. Strictly using H4350 in the 6 CM and N540 in the R700 223. The AR will see a variety including Benchmark/8208/IMR4895.

 

[Clancy]

So the only cartridge that has a carbon ring is the 7-300 then if I'm understanding you right? And theres 3 of them you say? I've only used H1000 in the 7-300. It's a middle of the road load at 72.5g with a 180g ELDM at 3000fps and 1/2 MOA out to 1200. Strictly using H4350 in the 6 CM and N540 in the R700 223. The AR will see a variety including Benchmark/8208/IMR4895.

No. 3 of your 4 have large carbon rings. The AR seems ok, but I may just be missing it.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Completely agree with the above and the image observations in particular.

Those images are a bit confusing though. Do you have a fired case in the chamber and the scope run in from the muzzle? Because it sure looks like it.

Yes, fired case in the chamber, teslong through the muzzle.

I'm not a BR shooter. Just a long range steel shooter. I'm happy with 1/2 MOA.

 

[Clancy]

Right you are Steve....Seen the exact same thing before...not too funny, and not if its your rifle or
life were talking about.

I have no idea why people think it’s cute, cool or beneficial to not clean. It does nothing for them. Scares me.

I’ve said all I’m going to say. I can see this thread getting rowdy.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Just checked my CZ457 22LR with a Bartlein. I haven't cleaned it in at least 1000 rounds, probably closer to 1500. I'm not 100% but if I was to take an educated guess, that's probably carbon?

Where exactly are those rings on the 223 and the 6 CM? I didn't think they looked too bad, but it'd be nice to know exactly where you're seeing them so I can take care of it!

 

[precision1]

Everything you said and pics made me cringe.lmao
I'm that guy that cleans a hunting rifle after one round.i don't want that crap sitting in my barrel getting hard to remove.not alot of work but I'll clean it.ive got to a place where I'll say ok it was fouling shot and hunt.im that bad

You can imagine how I clean a dedicated target rifle.so much easier to remove carbon and copper the day it was fired.

Many times I've had folks bring me a 22-250 or something similar and say it doesn't shoot anymore after 300 rounds uncleaned.after $1000 worth of solvents or some abrasive jb/iossi it magically shoots again .wow it's best to stay on top it.

Try cleaning a surplus military rifle really good.weeks in the basement lol it will never get good

To each there own but I know at what round count even my cheap rifles tighten up or shoot worse.from clean fouling shot to semi dirty

an f class match firing that many rounds really makes me cringe but again I'll show up to next match with a cleaned barrel.

But again long as your happy that's all that matters

 

[ronsatspokane]

So a lot of people who do not compete do not realize that after cleaning you need to foul the barrel before it starts shooting again. I usually clean after a match which in a day match is a minimum of 66 rounds (three strings of 20 rounds each with a minimum of two sighters per string) and I start the match with a fouled barrel unless I know the match has a blow off period or unlimited sighters. I have been known to go through a 3 day match without cleaning. If you think that is bad the guy who won nationals a while back (Jay) did so without cleaning his gun the entire week long match.

As far as the condition of your barrels. The 700 223 and the 7-300 have some fire cracking but not enough to throw them off in my experience. The 223 is only starting, the 7-300 looks like its been used a bit. I've had rifles barrels fire cracked a 1/3 of the way up the barrel before it went off. Off meaning opening up from less than 1/2 MOA to 3/4 MOA. The only carbon ring I see is in the 7-300. I use a bronze brush about the diameter of the chamber on a pistol cleaning rod with some solvent and rotate it to get rid of the ring. For that hard to get carbon down in the lands, I don't usually clean all of that out but I will occasionally use some Iosso to get it out. My opinion is that if you clean the gun to the point that the barrel looks new all the time it won't be long before you have a barrel that can be chambered for the next larger caliber.

 

[precision1]

So a lot of people who do not compete do not realize that after cleaning you need to foul the barrel before it starts shooting again. I usually clean after a match which in a day match is a minimum of 66 rounds (three strings of 20 rounds each with a minimum of two sighters per string) and I start the match with a fouled barrel unless I know the match has a blow off period or unlimited sighters. I have been known to go through a 3 day match without cleaning. If you think that is bad the guy who won nationals a while back (Jay) did so without cleaning his gun the entire week long match.

As far as the condition of your barrels. The 700 223 and the 7-300 have some fire cracking but not enough to throw them off in my experience. The 223 is only starting, the 7-300 looks like its been used a bit. I've had rifles barrels fire cracked a 1/3 of the way up the barrel before it went off. Of meaning opening up from less than 1/2 MOA to 3/4 MOA. The only carbon ring I see is in the 7-300. I use a bronze brush about the diameter of the chamber on a pistol cleaning rod with some solvent and rotate it to get rid of the ring. For that hard to get carbon down in the lands, I don't usually clean all of that out but I will occasionally use some Iosso to get it out. My opinion is that if you clean the gun to the point that the barrel looks new all the time it won't be long before you have a barrel that can be chambered for the next larger caliber.

Kinda of an old school mentality on cleaning.but ok

But good opinion on the bore brush diameter size of chamber to remove carbon Ring.

Not to many people talk about this but yeah spin a 45acp bore brush gets rid of carbon Ring well.little iosso,flitz maybe necessary

 

[ronsatspokane]

Kinda of an old school mentality on cleaning.but ok

But good opinion on the bore brush diameter size of chamber to remove carbon Ring.

Not to many people talk about this but yeah spin a 45acp bore brush gets rid of carbon Ring well.little iosso,flitz maybe necessary

Exactly. 45 is what I use. If you keep rotating it you can pull it out without a problem.

Yeah, maybe old school but I'm a recovering barrel cleaner. I used scrub and scrub and use Iosso to get the last of it out. Never made a difference on the target that I could tell so I've scaled back my cleaning significantly. I do check with a bore scope periodically and I do run Iosso occasionally as well. Depends on the gun and how likely it is to lay down a lot of carbon.

 

[JMayo]

I see some cases that could be too long.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Does the 45 cal brush work for most all chambers then?

 

[precision1]

Exactly. 45 is what I use. If you keep rotating it you can pull it out without a problem.

Yeah, maybe old school but I'm a recovering barrel cleaner. I used scrub and scrub and use Iosso to get the last of it out. Never made a difference on the target that I could tell so I've scaled back my cleaning significantly. I do check with a bore scope periodically and I do run Iosso occasionally as well. Depends on the gun and how likely it is to lay down a lot of carbon.

LMAO I agree.. you still have to decide at what point to clean though
It will get bad at some point .
But yeah your right.good info

 

[kyotekiller25]

I see some cases that could be too long.

The 6 CM are probably the longest. I was just going to ask where do you let the cases get to the max length before trimming? Is it right before that black ring, or right at the end of it?

 

[precision1]

Does the 45 cal brush work for most all chambers then?

Yes