Bore scope inspection

[Rustystud]

A few years ago I bought a Gradient Lens Hawkeye bore scope "Gunsmith" version.
It included a 22" straight and 45 degree .177 scope, a 7" straight and 45 degree scope, and a 45 degree eye piece all in a nice case with some cleaning supplies and a catalogue.
This kit even after the shot show discount was about $1,900.00. I was of the opinin I could inspect barrels for a fee. I quickly found customers wanted the bore scope service but did not want to pay for it. I have used the equipment to answer my own questions about barrels and to learn about different kinds of rifling. I have in no way gotten the return I expected to get. I may have just thrown more good money into the air. I just got back from this years Shot Show and what did I buy. A video camera especially made for use with the borescope and the associated computer soft and hardware. For the last three nights I have been getting past the learning curve on how to use the new equipment. I can now inspect, photograph, video, do narrative presentations, etc. This new equipment allows for measuring, enlarging, and incorporating grids and reticals for optical comparitor quality inspections. All being documented and recorded onto a computer file. It will be interesting to see if I get request for laboratory quality barrel inspections. Or I have just invested into more equipment that will be a luxury and never pay for itself.
Nat Lambeth

 

[shortgrass]

Time will tell, won't it? I too, hoped to recover some of the expense of a HawkEye and discovered the same thing, many want the sevice, most won't even pay a modest $10 fee for it. But, the HawkEye is a quality made tool and with care will last for the rest of my life. Getting a 'close-up' look has answered alot of questions and helps me to 'inspect' my work. I've used it inside bolt bodies, cases and many other places, besides bores & chambers. There are a few who recognize the expense involved and always offer a few bucks, but those are usually your 'good' customers that you'd scope a bore for, anyway. I wonder how those who want the service for 'free', get along at other services, like the heat & air guy or plumber? I understand having a sewer line video inspected costs a pretty good penny, above the sevice call. Makes ya' wonder about being in the profession, doesn't it?

 

[rayjay]

When I had my motorcycle shop it became obvious I needed to be able to bore my own cylinders. The cheapest decent set up I could buy was about $4500 including the cost of the precision hone. The going local rate for doing a [ bad ] boring job was about $45. It took me about 1.5 hours to do a 2 stroke cylinder and I charged $60 which was not even making my hourly labor rate.

So I spent $4500 just so I could get paid less than my hourly rate for using the machine. At least the pistons would now go all the way through the bore unlike some I had done by others When I closed the shop I sold the machine for $2500 iirc so I did recoup some of the money.

 

[apakesha]

Nat, What did the video setup cost you? Was it from Gradient? Or from some other vendor? Mike

 

[jscandale]

You should set up a stand on the boardwalk with a sign saying "Rectal Exams -$100". I'll bet you'd make your money back a lot quicker.

JS

 

[spclark]

I've always had the opinion that more information is better than less, as long as you can make good use of it. As you're in a position to generate income with your skills and investment in hardware, I'm guessing that the feedback you'll get will help you improve your product / service... which at least should give you a sense of satisfaction, if not earn you more $$ at the end of the day.

I bought a borescope several years back & am glad I did. The learning curve (be careful!) was a little pricey and learning to interpret what I'm seeing in there admittedly takes time.

 

[CJ6]

As a possible consumer of such a "job" I would be hard pressed to argue with "SHOP" rates for such service. I say go for it.........

 

[Rustystud]

The Camera was $995.00 less a $200.00 Shot Show discount. The USB Video Capture was $435.00 less the $40.00 Shot Show discount. I spent $1,190.00. The Bore Scope(s), lights, 90 degree adapted and case was $1,900.00 after a $200.00 Shot Show discount about 4 yeard ago.
Nat Lambeth

 

[Bob3700]

Nate,

I would incorporate the cost of the borescope in a number of areas. An extra $10 for a chamber job where the customer gets some prints of the chamber and throat would be an expense that few would question.

Same for a rechamber job. Before and after pics would be included for the additional fee.

Same stuff added on the muzzle end. Used crown vs a new sharp one with documentation.

Just some thoughts for you.

Bob

 

[Rustystud]

Bob:

My Chamber jobs currently include:

1. Spending a hour or more talking to the customer on the phone or e-mailing detailing what the customer wants and needs.
2. Ordering components needed to do the job, ie barrels, bolts, parts, reamers and gauges, suppliies.
3. 1/2 hour to hour unpacking and logging the firearm in my A&D books, contacting the customer confirming delivery of their firearm.
4. 1/2 to an hour Dissasembling of the firearm including the entire bolt and in most cases cleaning it thoroughly.
5. Measuring and documenting the action and bolt dementions.
6. Dialing in the barrel to +/- .0001" (I do both ends)
7. Turning, Threading, counter boring, chambering, headspacing, polishing and chamfering chamber all in one set-up.
8. Remove from the lathe, measure, cut in bandsaw to rough finish length.
9. Redial (+/- .0001)in barrel reversed and crown.
10. 1/2 hour Clean, lubricate, an install in action.
11. 1/2 hour Clean, lubricate reassemble bolt, shroud, cocking piece, firing pin, spring, and retention pin.
12. Reinstall Boltstop, Boltstop spring, boltstop pin
13. Reinstall sear pin, and trigger
14. Test fire checking for problems
15. Engrave cartridge, neck dia., smiths name on barrel

This is just chambering nothing extra.
I charge $225. for the chambering, $55.00 for the use of my reamer and gauges, and $10.-$20.00 shop supplies dependent on what else is done. Parts, tax, other services, and shipping are extra.

Honestly, you tell me I am charging too much. I have regular customers who never say a word. I have customers who really cann't afford to be shooting that give me a tip from time to time. I have others who bitch and moan about the cost of doing business.

To open ones doors there are expenses no one thinks about, licnese, tax, permits, insurance, utilities, rent, capital expendatures, consumeables, depreciation, interest, etc.

I have a $20,000.00 lathe, and $250,000. in tooling and fixtures.

Hell, I ought to quit gunsmithing and go to making custom motorcycle parts. No BATF, TTB, FBI, OSHA, EPA, IRS, State and County folks harrassing me. And All the customers are willing to pay.

Nat Lambeth

 

[apakesha]

I don't understand when you have time to do any gunsmithing. I checked your stats and you are on this forum 24hrs a day! Must be good at multitasking. ;D Just joking!

 

[spclark]

Your pricing sounds very reasonable to me, in line with what I've paid for similar work in the past.

That you experience a wide range of customer "reaction" to what you quote or charge I think is just the normal turn of events, a bell curve if you will, with the truly exceptional at the extremes.

Next project I undertake we may be doing some business... if you haven't switched over to making cycle parts by then ;-(

 

[Aero]

Nat-

Excellent break down of what it takes for a "simple" rebarrel job. It should be required reading for anyone considering having the job done. Its hard for me to believe that there are guys around the country charging $150 or less for the same job. As I said in another post a while back, they are doing themselves and anyone trying to make a living from gun work a huge disservice.

Good luck recouping some of the cost of your borescope system. I have had a Hawkeye almost since they became available and long before I hung out a shingle. I even sold my original and bought a new one last year. I would also like to recover some of the cost, but have my doubts. I've scoped some bores for guys that had brought in rifles that "wouldn't shoot" and I don't think it ever crossed their minds that I might charge for pulling out the 'scope and looking in the bore. That being said, I still find it an invaluble tool and have learned alot from using it.

-Eron

 

[spclark]

I've scoped some bores for guys that had brought in rifles that "wouldn't shoot" and I don't think it ever crossed their minds that I might charge for pulling out the 'scope and looking in the bore.

I know what you mean there but it still galls me. Few would expect a car or truck dealer not to charge for a diagnostic "peek" or a doctor / dentist. Maybe the charge could be deducted or discounted in the price of whatever service(s) you both deem necessary to effect improved performance? It's not as though your time and experience aren't worth something to your customers! After all, what caused them to choose you over the next shop in town?

 

[shortgrass]

I've scoped some bores for guys that had brought in rifles that "wouldn't shoot" and I don't think it ever crossed their minds that I might charge for pulling out the 'scope and looking in the bore.

I know what you mean there but it still galls me. Few would expect a car or truck dealer not to charge for a diagnostic "peek" or a doctor / dentist. Maybe the charge could be deducted or discounted in the price of whatever service(s) you both deem necessary to effect improved performance? It's not as though your time and experience aren't worth something to your customers! After all, what caused them to choose you over the next shop in town?

They just want to know if they should take that rifle to the next gunshow/pawn shop.

 

[Bob3700]

Nate,

I wasn't criticizing your charges or work practices, just trying to identify some areas where you could recoup a couple of bucks on your equipment.

If someone walks in your door and complains about the prices, then they could not afford to have any custom work done anyway.

Call up Alan Warner and see what he charges for his work or parts! If you want the best, it ain't cheap. That I understand.

By the same token, once you have the "Finest sword in all of France" built, you have no excuses in the performance on the target. That is the way I want it, a no excuses rifle.

As long as the quote matches the invoice and there are no "Surprises" in the billing, then my expectation have been met.

Bob

 

[jscandale]

Does membership to this forum also come with a free box of Kleenex for all of the crying?

JS

 

[HiredGun]

I also dropped near 2 large for my Hawkeye Pro borescope and accessories. I thought the same thing at first. It was another tool for a service but found the same thing. No one will pay for it. Now I look at it like any other good measuring tool used to ensure quality. Same as buying the $350 indicators when the $120 ones would probably have worked just as good. When I check a chamber or crown that I just cut with it I know without a doubt the quality of that job.

I doubt you will make much from the video or photo equipment as a service but I do believe it would be an excellent sales tool to be able to post the quality of your work.