Bolt binding

[clowdis]

Don't want to step on anybody's toes here but I have a question that I'd like some opinions on. I just finished a tube gun for a customer using one of the nice aftermarket actions based on the Remington 700 footprint. Problem is the bolt wants to bind up in the rear position, not really bad but enough to be detrimental to rapid bolt operation. I have another action by the same manufacturer based on the Remington no. 7 action footprint and it also binds in the rearward position, again not much but just enough to be annoying. I have other custom actions that do the same thing and others that don't. I have Remingtons and Winchesters with sloppy bolts that don't have this problem. What I was wondering is if the tighter bolts that come with custom actions might not be as good in this application as maybe a sloppier bolt from the factory actions. Rapid bolt manipulation is a must in highpower rapid fire matches.

 

[rayjay]

My Hall rimfire has a bit of the same issue. I think mainly it's just that there isn't enough of the bolt in the action when the bolt is all the way to the rear. The actions are made as short as possible to save a bit of weight and to make the completed rifle as short as possible. My Annie 54 actions are smooth because the action and bolt is longer and has more bearing surface.

I have found it beneficial to look for any sharp edges left over from machining the action. When the bolt is all the way back it could be bearing on these sharp edges.

 

[clowdis]

My Hall rimfire has a bit of the same issue. I think mainly it's just that there isn't enough of the bolt in the action when the bolt is all the way to the rear.

Funny you should say that, I had looked at the same thing with my push feed Winchester across the course action and it has at least 50% more bearing area when the bolt is all the way back. It is butter smooth and never binds.

 

[BoydAllen]

One thing that I have noticed is that the metal finishes that are currently popular, that involve glass beading parts, before the finish is applied seem to make this situation worse. Is your bolt's finish as it came from the manufacturer?

 

[clowdis]

One thing that I have noticed is that the metal finishes that are currently popular, that involve glass beading parts, before the finish is applied seem to make this situation worse. Is your bolt's finish as it came from the manufacturer?

Yep, it's polished not glass beaded. I think there must be a magic number in there somewhere for bolt to receiver clearance but I'm not sure what that number is. I don't have a real good method of measuring the ID of the receiver without making a series of plug gauges so I thought I'd ask the question to see if anyone else has seen the problem and if they knew what the solution was. Otherwise it might make me think that the best receiver to use in a tube gun might be a factory receiver.

 

[rayjay]

Could you use a long action and place the bolt stop so that you end up with a lot of bolt engagement when the bolt is all the way back ?

I am a fanatic about smooth bolt cycling and do a lot of work on most of my bolts to reduce the bolt lift and bolt closing pressures. The Hall is excellent in these respects but the finesse you have to use when pushing the bolt handle forward I find to be a bit of a distraction. One technique is to push on the back of the bolt with your thumb so there is no side loading from the bolt knob.

 

[mdavis78102]

You're going to laugh, but I was having the same issue with a M700, and it turns out it was the trigger improperly adjusted.. Found out when I pulled the trigger off to change it out.

 

[kendog]

Prussian blue it and look for the high spots. Stone or polish the high spots down.
I just fit a PPC faced bolt from PTG to a Rem 722, ordered ground to a nice, tight custom fit. Wouldnt close fully, maybe 45 degrees shy of bolt closing fully. Turned out it was a tiny bit of metal at the bolt root/primary extraction cam area that was slightly proud. I was convinced the distance from the rear of the locking lug to the front of the bolt handle was shorter then stock Remington. Not so. Just a little "proud" metal at the root, that only came in contact with the bridge as the bolt was almost closed. 10 seconds with a file and now it runs real smooth.
Maybe Remington and Winchester knew something when they made them so "sloppy".

 

[Rtheurer]

Not a solution but this thread caught my eye as I to had the same problem. Tube gun Remmy action with a Prefix Letter of D if Mememory serves me. I started to pay attention to this and found that all the A, B, and C Remington 700 Short action's did not bind up. Later years all had issues. I lapped, ground, polished, radiased every thing I could find. it got better but not great. My C action on a Tactical rifle is smooth as silk right from the factory. A call To Jerry Stiller will solve that problem. Or Borden or the very very smooth Peirce action, perfect for the tube gun. Its hard enough to run a stick shift for the rapids besided fighting the bolt. Once its stuck You really have to come out of position and work the bolt. Not fun.
RussT

 

[clowdis]

Russ,
Just got an action in today from one of the manufacturers that you mentioned above. It's a Remington short action footprint and guess what...same problem. Thankfully this one is going on a varmint rifle and not being used in an across the course rifle.

 

[AWLEAPHART]

A salesman came by work selling new grease that has molly mixed in it. He was telling me how it lasted longer and was way better than regular grease that we use to grease equipment.I got a sample tube and rubbed a VERY light coat on my Remington 700 bolt and lugs.
It made a difference to me.
Anthony

 

[Rustystud]

Blair:

I had a simular problem. It was not the action. it was the trigger hanger. Try removing the trigger and installing the action into the Tube gun. See if it quits binding. Then see if it is the trigger hanger or the sear.
Good Luck
Nat

 

[clowdis]

Not the trigger Nat. There were no hangers on either action and they would bind even without a trigger in them. I think it's a design or clearance issue. At this point, until I see something different, I'm going to suggest that any customers for tube guns stay away from the custom actions and go with the production ones.

 

[mdavis78102]

Blair:

I had a simular problem. It was not the action. it was the trigger hanger. Try removing the trigger and installing the action into the Tube gun. See if it quits binding. Then see if it is the trigger hanger or the sear.
Good Luck
Nat

Same thing happened to me. It turned out it was the sear....

 

[Minesweeper3433]

I have had a similar problem on a 513T matchmasters. The magazine lips stood up into the groves in the bottom of the bolt. The bolt would ride against the lips and slowly shave a groove into the feed lips on the magazine. I still have to get an after market magazine for the rifle as I only have one original magazine and dont want to cut off the lips for it. Of course this is a rimfire so def a different situation.