I doubt you will ever see the IBS or NBRSA change from their best edge scoring on the same target For all calibers. It is simple, cost affective, and everybody knows the game going in.I believe the Op is raising a perfectly valid and fair point.
This whole problem can be resolved by referencing only the center of the bullet hole. That way the size of the hole is no longer relevant.
Jackie I agree, they will never change. But they will continue to shrink into obscurity. To many guys focused on their records. IBS missed d the boat when the 30 first came out. They should have retired the records to stand forever along with previous retired records and established something along the lines of what the UBR has done. I am not trying to convince you as I know that's impossible. But when the 30 came out to dominate the score game, very quickly overall participation dropped....a lot. So all the guys who dropped out not only became missing from the matches but their 6mm rifles were gathering dust as a new shooter could not buy one and be competitive. Does not matter I guess, the horse is out of the barn. Majority of shooters now shooting local club matches, maybe that is better anyway. Just think how many records would be available to go after with a .22, .243, and a .30 class. So much more work available for bgun builders and so many more components sold. Lot of missed opportunities that will never come around again. Here in Pa there are quite a few strong club matches across the state drawing hundreds of competitors each year, great area to be a shooter in. A match every weekend and often two is great.I doubt you will ever see the IBS or NBRSA change from their best edge scoring on the same target For all calibers. It is simple, cost affective, and everybody knows the game going in.
True, the larger bullet at equal agging capability does have an advantage, but that comes along with added recoil and the problems that entail.
I did an informal poll of Gulf Coast Region Shooters a while back, and the overwhelming majority felt that no change was needed.
Oh I get it...I doubt you will ever see the IBS or NBRSA change from their best edge scoring on the same target For all calibers. It is simple, cost affective, and everybody knows the game going in.
True, the larger bullet at equal agging capability does have an advantage, but that comes along with added recoil and the problems that entail.
I did an informal poll of Gulf Coast Region Shooters a while back, and the overwhelming majority felt that no change was needed.
Which is why UBR is the best score game going. Shoot what you bring.Oh I get it...
Every progressive spirit is opposed by a thousand mediocre minds who are committed to guard the status quo.
Wrong, they wish they had a 1000 members.Oh I get it...
Every progressive spirit is opposed by a thousand mediocre minds who are committed to guard the status quo.
For the OP and all the others, I agree that at 100 / 200 yard IBS and NBRSA score matches, the 30BR reigns king and because the larger bullet will give you a slight scoring edge. It does come at the expense of more recoil and more upset in the bags. But that is still overcome by the scoring edge. You look at the game you are wanting to play/ compete at and then you build the absolute best you can for that game. Nothing wrong with that.In theory 6BR (meaning also improved cartridges) should outshoot .284 at 100-300yards also in F-class. It should, but it didn't in my case. I lost by 1 point with a guy shooting .284 because of bullet hole diameter. As one of our colleagues @TonyinKY
rightly pointed out:
"Do you score by best edge scoring? If so the 30BR will win because of the bigger bullet hole. Other than that I think the 6PPC and 30BR are the same."
Another colleague @Laurie noticed:
"One benefit is as per BR for score - although there is a '30-calibre' scoring rule in F-Class (ie the shot hole edges should be adjusted as if it were made by a .30 bullet when smaller calibres are used), in practice the butts crew will almost invariably score the shot on whether it breaks the line or not - this disadvantages the 6mm even more so 223.".
So, the question is, should I rebarrel from 6BR to .30BR to better cover my mistakes and have a fighting chance against .284 guys?
Joe's I agree with you 100 percent but that is not what the discussion is about. I still feel the IBS missed the boat years ago. It's a shame. Losers try to make it an equipment game. Equipment is contributing factor but not the most important factor. The UBR has the best idea of running short range score.For the OP and all the others, I agree that at 100 / 200 yard IBS and NBRSA score matches, the 30BR reigns king and because the larger bullet will give you a slight scoring edge. It does come at the expense of more recoil and more upset in the bags. But that is still overcome by the scoring edge. You look at the game you are wanting to play/ compete at and then you build the absolute best you can for that game. Nothing wrong with that.
But, when you stretch the yardage out a bit further, the trend seems to begin to switch back to the 6mm variants.
Go here
and take a look at the tackdriver relative placements for the 6ppc, 6BR and its variants, and the 30BR and its variants. At least at this 300 meter match for the last two years, it seems the 30BR's have lagged behind the 6mm's. However, you always have to account for the driver as well. Note that Wayne France has successfully bucked the trend for two years in a row and has finished near the top shooting his 30WW.Tack Driver II sponsorships and live results
No problem. I enjoyed doing it. Makes for some interesting reading. I know what conclusions i reached. What about you all? I concluded I need to bring much warmer clothes next year.forum.accurateshooter.com
The point of all this: The skill of the shooter is still more important than the advantage of the caliber. True enough, the 6PPC dominates the Group discipline and the 30BR dominates the discipline game. But I will assure you both those disciplines are dominated by those shooters who put in the long hours and dedicated practice needed to hone their skills as well as perfecting their equipment. The rest of us would be better served by following their practice regimen rather than their equipment list.
Joe, your right he mentioned 600 yards F. Only thing I can say is myself and others have won Groundhog Matches here in Pa that go to 500 yards with 30 BRs when conditions are good. Of course the score games could sure be flipped by going to worse edge scoring. I have a 30br barrel on one of my rifles that is normally a 6BRX . We have 8 winter matches in the area within 1.5 hrs of my home, all at just 200 yds for the winter. That big bullet hole is nice as we count the dot as an 11 instead of an x. If you drop a dot you might still shoot your way back in it. That would be another way to go but, now your into messing with the records again. A few will never agree with that. Texas, bet you guys never went to a match in below zero temps, lol.Jeffppc, it appears to me the OP was asking about shooting a 30BR in a longer range match like maybe F class. I attempted to show why that seemed to be a bad idea.
Also, I shoot NBRSA score in Texas. Thats the only score available here. I would have to drive about a thousand miles to shoot UBR. so, i shoot a 30BR. I think there are a couple of ways to change the score game that might improve but the fact remains that registered matches all shoot the same target and score best edge.
Not saying UBR would not be a challenge and fun to shoot at all.
Jackie I think you are correct. The 1/2 minute 10 ring is to big with current equipment. The 30 BR made mediocre shooters relevant. Cut the ring size, use the dot as an 11 and it will put a premium to tune and accuracy. Think of all the new records to be set and if current records are froze those with records will be in the books forever. Win.....win.One place where I think UBR missed the boat is they should not have made the smaller caliber targets bigger, they should have shrunk the 30 caliber.
Start with the 30 with a 1/4 inch diameter 10 ring and a 1/32 center dot, or 11. Then make the other targets correspondingly larger as the caliber decreases.
tThere is a misconception that all you need is a 30 cal to win in NBRSA or IBS Score. What you need is a great shooting 30. That means a rifle shooting at a sun .200 agging capability.
All ways keep in mind that if you keep it in the center of the moth ball, caliber becomes a moot point.
We are thinking about having a non 30 cal score shoot next year in one of our Club Matches. I will shoot my 6PPC.
While we can appreciate and admire record setting performances, they mean nothing when you sit down at the bench and the range officer says……”commence fire”.Jackie I think you are correct. The 1/2 minute 10 ring is to big with current equipment. The 30 BR made mediocre shooters relevant. Cut the ring size, use the dot as an 11 and it will put a premium to tune and accuracy. Think of all the new records to be set and if current records are froze those with records will be in the books forever. Win.....win.
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Yep, the only target that counts is the one in front of you waiting to be shot. The rest is history.While we can appreciate and admire record setting performances, they mean nothing when you sit down at the bench and the range officer says……”commence fire”.
Are you saying only 6mm's need apply for this particular match ??We are thinking about having a non 30 cal score shoot next year in one of our Club Matches. I will shoot my 6PPC.
It wold be a club match, just for the fun of it. The majority of the shooters who attend our Club Matches have some type of 6 mm. Usually a 6PPC.Are you saying only 6mm's need apply for this particular match ??
Hey Jackie. Just curious, if you were going to a UBR match which gun would you bring.It wold be a club match, just for the fun of it. The majority of the shooters who attend our Club Matches have some type of 6 mm. Usually a 6PPC.
I think it would be fun.
Hey Jackie. Just curious, if you were going to a UBR match which gun would you bring.
Not Jackie but I’m pretty sure ever perfect 264 shot at 100 in UBR was with a 6PPC ,, I do know there was a cash prize offered for the first perfect score with anything other than a 6PPC that I think still stands.Hey Jackie. Just curious, if you were going to a UBR match which gun would you bring.
The most accurate Rifle I own which day in and day out is my 30BR.Hey Jackie. Just curious, if you were going to a UBR match which gun would you bring.