Bigger bullet hole theory

[marchx]

IFCRA F-Class rules:
"F12.7. When a shot touches the line between two divisions of the target, the competitor will be credited with the higher value. In case of doubt a gauge of 7.82mm diameter (=0.308 inches) will be used (regardless of the actual calibre in use) to determine the value of the shot. The ruling by a Butt Officer will be final."

the gauge is used at national level competitions. At lower levels it is usually not the case.

 

[Bill Norris]

In theory 6BR (meaning also improved cartridges) should outshoot .284 at 100-300yards also in F-class. It should, but it didn't in my case. I lost by 1 point with a guy shooting .284 because of bullet hole diameter. As one of our colleagues @TonyinKY
rightly pointed out:
"Do you score by best edge scoring? If so the 30BR will win because of the bigger bullet hole. Other than that I think the 6PPC and 30BR are the same."

Another colleague @Laurie noticed:
"One benefit is as per BR for score - although there is a '30-calibre' scoring rule in F-Class (ie the shot hole edges should be adjusted as if it were made by a .30 bullet when smaller calibres are used), in practice the butts crew will almost invariably score the shot on whether it breaks the line or not - this disadvantages the 6mm even more so 223.".

So, the question is, should I rebarrel from 6BR to .30BR to better cover my mistakes and have a fighting chance against .284 guys?

I don't think the 30BR will hurt you by no means.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

In shooting indoor smallbore on tiny targets I've learned that scoring the holes is a waste of time. Scores with a plug will be substantially different.

Well...I have been on the jury, and scored several national and 2 International competitions for pistol and smallbore - albeit not indoor. The jury carefully insert the plug, vertically, and if theres is doubt, 3 jury members decide on the score. I have seen juries favour the shooter, if a clear "miss" is not evident. Note that a plug gauge should only be inserted once, as repeated use may widen the hole.

 

[jelenko]

Well...I have been on the jury, and scored several national and 2 International competitions for pistol and smallbore - albeit not indoor. The jury carefully insert the plug, vertically, and if theres is doubt, 3 jury members decide on the score. I have seen juries favour the shooter, if a clear "miss" is not evident. Note that a plug gauge should only be inserted once, as repeated use may widen the hole.

For the record, the post quoted by the above post is not mine.

 

[wkdickinson]

In NRA High Power, back in the 80's and 90's, when the AR15 started to become popular, there was a rule that allowed "sub-calibers" to be scored using a .30 cal plug. I am not sure when that changed, but it is no longer the case. IMHO considering the advantage of a 30 cal over a 6mm is largely academic, considering that there is only .0325" difference in radius between the two. I think the ballistic advantage of the 6mm, far out weighs the radius advantage of the 30 cal.

 

[Fuj]

I like the idea behind ultimatebenchrest. We should import it to Europe.

I shoot UBR targets with the boy's (and gals) at Anderson Creek.
The targets are printed and sized for specific bullets. I however
shoot a 7mm and there is no 7mm bullet hole target, so I get
bumped to using the .30 cal target. It all works out quite well.
Them dot's are tiny !! P

 

[marchx]

I shoot UBR targets with the boy's (and gals) at Anderson Creek.
The targets are printed and sized for specific bullets. I however
shoot a 7mm and there is no 7mm bullet hole target, so I get
bumped to using the .30 cal target. It all works out quite well.
Them dot's are tiny !! P

@Fuj do you know where I can get those targets? I mean ready to print.

 

[choprzrul]

The bigger hole theory is why I was going to buy a Camp Carbine in 45 ACP before going to my next Appleseed Double the size of hole compared to those puny .22s......

 

[JEFFPPC]

A bigger hole is not a theory. A bigger hole is larger than a smaller hole......In case any liberals may be on here and confused.

 

[Mulligan]

A bigger hole is not a theory. A bigger hole is larger than a smaller hole......In case any liberals may be on here and confused.

Wow! That is a little insensitive, don’t you think?
What if the bigger bullet hole identifies as a slimmer bullet hole?

CW

 

[JEFFPPC]

Wow! That is a little insensitive, don’t you think?
What if the bigger bullet hole identifies as a slimmer bullet hole?

CW

Good question Milligan. I ran this past the 3 old guys in the back room who score our targets with failing eye sight. The ruling follows: As long as the above mentioned bullet in question does not deform the previousmy mentioned holes dimension it will be considered normal and acceptable. I hope this clears up any and all misconceptions you might have.

 

[Toejoe12]

AFAIK, you do as soon as you shoot in a comp with ICFRA regulated rules, ie Target Rifle, Match Rifle, F-Class, Palma etc. As I said, whether the butts crew have a 'bullet gauge', or even know of this issue, is very different thing. They certainly do if you shoot in an international match where the targets are manually scored. How this works out with E-targets - search me!

I’m only familiar with Shotmarker and Silver Mtn. Both have the option to set the caliber. The only time E Targets have been used at F=Class Nationals in the US was 2016 and 2017 at Lodi. Part of the shooter instructions during logging in their competitor number was also selecting caliber being used. I don’t recall ever hearing this as an issue from all the belly aching, bitching and moaning and complaining about E Targets from some of the competitors that didn’t do as well or from those that didn’t go but felt it necessary to join in on all the debate

 

[dellet]

Not knowing how often this happens to you, makes deciding if changing bullet diameters would help impossible. How often does a single point matter?

I wouldn’t also point out that you actually needed two points to win. The best you could of hoped for with a single point would be a shoot off, or end in a draw.

The old riddle of “if you pass the second place runner, what position are you in”? Sort of applies.

 

[Fuj]

@Fuj do you know where I can get those targets? I mean ready to print.

Not really sure other then contacting ultimatebenchrest.com direct
or JEFFPPC may chime in since his club uses them during the years
matches.

 

[Jeff Porter]

. How this works out with E-targets - search me!

In Theory - The E-target marks the center of the bullet and calculate the position of the "hole" using the bullet diameter entered by the shooter. This is evaluated relative to the radius from the calibrated center of the target to determine if the hole is tangential to any scoring lines....

To make it an even playing field e-targets set all shooters to the same diameter bullet..... and wait for the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the .30 cal end of the line.

Like others have said... shoot the middle and stay away from the lines..

 

[243winxb]

If the bullet cuts the line, you get the higher value. Its as old as time.

 

[marchx]

If the bullet cuts the line, you get the higher value. Its as old as time.

Well, this rule is why I consider changing to a bigger caliber. @dellet well, it hapenned to me two times this year.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Well, this rule is why I consider changing to a bigger caliber. @dellet well, it hapenned to me two times this year.

Just remember there is always a trade off. Heavier bullet, more powder, more recoil. In some cases also going to a lower b.c. bullet in the short range game. You might want to look at what the majority of the winners are using. For most shooters I think the best way to pick up those close calls is more attention to reading and understanding conditions.

 

[SSeal]

@Fuj do you know where I can get those targets? I mean ready to print.

The official targets have to be purchased from Danny Hensley. He has them all printed at one location and distributes them to match directors. He is on here as prologr.

 

[Ccrider]

The official targets have to be purchased from Danny Hensley. He has them all printed at one location and distributes them to match directors. He is on here as prologr.

Yep. Good guy. He ships fast.