Best varmint gun out to 400 yards
- Thread starter BobbyJ
- Start date
B23
Gold $$ Contributor
My 204 is nearly new and I'd have to go look but the round count is well under 50, it's probably 20-25. I'm to lazy to go look but I know for sure it's well under 50.
That's the exact reason why you should get an AR. Buy what you want, not what other people think you should get based on liberal, anti-gun information.
IMO the best and most cost effective will be a 223, there is available off the shelf ammunition from inexpensive plinker rounds to match grade rounds. Also there is a much greater range of factory loaded bullet weights for the 223, I have seen factory loaded ammo from 35 gr to 90 gr, although for PD shooting the 40 gr has no peers IMO. Check the price of factory loaded 204 ammo versus factory loaded 223 ammo and you will see that the 223 ammo has much more availability and is less expensive, since you do not reload that should be a prime consideration.
If you should decide to start reloading at a later date you will find easy and more inexpensive components for the 223, whereas components can be a bit harder to find and often more expensive for the 204. 204 brass availabity in particular can be spotty and expensive sometimes.
Lightest recoil with the 204 - NO. If you check the loading manuals and look at the amount of powder being burned in the 204 and 223 in most cases the powder amount is so close that it is not even an issue. The only way to get less recoil in the 204 is to shoot the 32 gr bullets and even then it is only about a half ft-lb less recoil.
204 - Using the Hodgdon on-line reloading data for the 204 with 32 gr bullets the average powder charge is around 29 grs ballistics recoil calculator the recol energy is 2.5 ft-lbs.
Using the JBM using the 204 data for the 40 gr bullet the average powder charge is around 28 grs. Using the JBM ballistics recoil calculator with a 9 lb rifle recoil energy is 2.8 ft-lbs
223 - Using the Hodgdon on-line reloading data for the 223 with the 40 gr bullets with an average powdr charge the recoil energy is 2.8 ft-lbs, the same identical ft-lbs of recoil as the 204.
The less recoil for the 204 was pushed by the manufacturers and gun writers when the 204 first came on the scene but facts are that it is impossible to change physics - if you are shooting the same weight bullet and using the same powder charge the recoil will be the same. I am not just using the calculators to prove a point - I had Tikka T-3 sporters in 204 and 223 the rifles were virtually identical. I also had Cooper Varminters in 204 and 223 they too were virtually identical with weights being to within an ounce of each other. I let other people shoot them without telling them which caliber they shooting and no one has ever been able to tell a difference in recoil. Only one could tell the difference between the 204 with 32 gr bullets and the 204 with 40 gr bullets, there is a difference but it is so minor as to be a non-issue.
As far as barrel life the 204 will be a bit shorter because you are burning the same amount of powder through a smaller diameter hole. Also the 204 is operating at around 55,000 psi - the 223 around 48500 psi, the higher pressure of the 204 will shorten barrel life in comparison to the lower pressure 223.
Out of my 223's I expect around 5000 rounds of 1/2" or less groups before I start seeing uncalled flyers, the 204's gave me around 4000 rounds of sub-1/2" or less groups before I started seeing uncalled flyers. For a lot of shooters this is not relevant because they will neve shoot 4000 rounds in their life but for me it is a real consideration because I generally shoot 3500 - 4000 rounds per year.
I am sure that there will be those who disagree and that is ok, but just remember - the laws of physics cannot be repealed or suspended.
drover
Last edited:
Consider what the BC is for a 40gr 20 cal bullet compared to the BC of a 40gr in 22 cal.
That BC difference could be the most important factor in the wind and wind drift is our main problem. At 400Y the sum of the difference in drift at the same speed is approx the width of a PD.
The criteria was watching the aftermath, right???, so less recoil helps and the bigger 22's start to stray away from this parameter. Otherwise a big 22 with even higher BC bullets would excel at hit ratios.
Heavy rifle + muzzle brake = easier self spotting. My 17 lb 20-221FB with 32's has astoundingly low felt recoil. If it had a brake it'd be down to 17wsm levels.
I'm well aware of the attributes and the faults of Savage rifles, I sold the Savage.
If you can afford that SAKO, you aren't far from a budget custom.
That BC difference could be the most important factor in the wind and wind drift is our main problem. At 400Y the sum of the difference in drift at the same speed is approx the width of a PD.
The criteria was watching the aftermath, right???, so less recoil helps and the bigger 22's start to stray away from this parameter. Otherwise a big 22 with even higher BC bullets would excel at hit ratios.
Heavy rifle + muzzle brake = easier self spotting. My 17 lb 20-221FB with 32's has astoundingly low felt recoil. If it had a brake it'd be down to 17wsm levels.
I'm well aware of the attributes and the faults of Savage rifles, I sold the Savage.
If you can afford that SAKO, you aren't far from a budget custom.
I feel a little shorter barrel makes for a little easier/faster handling gun. My exp is when you go to a shorter barrel you loose more velocity with the 204 than with a 223, no facts here just my opinion. Most of the factory 204's will have a 1:12 twist barrel but if you go with an 8 twist in a 223 the bullet will be spinning faster thus giving more SPLAT FACTOR
WyleWD
Silver $$ Contributor
Based only on your first 2 sentences..... I'd say you nailed it with the 204. One of the 17 centerfires like the 17 Rem or 17 FB would also be good IF you reloaded and had a 9tw barrel on it. JME WD
I don't know anything about a 20 practical, can you buy off the shelf ammo for it? Or is it some re-loaders only round?
I've never reloaded and not sure I will like doing it, (no offense to people that do) At least for now any gun I purchase has to have some kind of factory ammo option.
The Australian Outback .223Rem loaded with the Sierra 69MK is really nice factory loads, it is back again for $15 a box. The good ADI brass reloads well.
If you don't reload and if your rifle likes this ammo. It will be good to at least 500 yds.
Bangs OH
Silver $$ Contributor
If you enjoy hearing a "click" instead of a boom when you pull the trigger and watching as your quarry that was in the crosshairs scurries away: By all means, get the C-Z. My two 527s (esp. a .204 Kevlar Varmint) are accurate as hell when they don't fail to fire 
.
Figuring aftermarket firing springs would cure the light strikes plus decrease lock time, I recently got around to installing one from jnpgunsprings.com along with their hex-head action screws. Accuracy seemed even better, but when I pulled the trigger on the first fat groundhog.....nothing!
So, I'm done with C-Z. This is a common problem that they've been aware of and not attempted to fix. Also, I was willing to give a company that looked like it was really trying, from a country I thought was working on becoming a democracy, a fair chance. But I see the "good" people of the Czech Republic recently re-elected a Putin-sucking semi-dictator, to go with what looks like a dose a modern-American "I got mine, so screw you" arrogance. So, let 'em starve.
To the OP: fwiw, there's a deal on a NIB Cooper in .17 Remington over on saubier.com classifieds. Hunting Shack/HSM Ammo loads for that cartridge with a couple bullet choices, and factory stuff pops up occasionally at dealers and on the internet. Buy once, cry once.
.Figuring aftermarket firing springs would cure the light strikes plus decrease lock time, I recently got around to installing one from jnpgunsprings.com along with their hex-head action screws. Accuracy seemed even better, but when I pulled the trigger on the first fat groundhog.....nothing!
So, I'm done with C-Z. This is a common problem that they've been aware of and not attempted to fix. Also, I was willing to give a company that looked like it was really trying, from a country I thought was working on becoming a democracy, a fair chance. But I see the "good" people of the Czech Republic recently re-elected a Putin-sucking semi-dictator, to go with what looks like a dose a modern-American "I got mine, so screw you" arrogance. So, let 'em starve.
To the OP: fwiw, there's a deal on a NIB Cooper in .17 Remington over on saubier.com classifieds. Hunting Shack/HSM Ammo loads for that cartridge with a couple bullet choices, and factory stuff pops up occasionally at dealers and on the internet. Buy once, cry once.
I think the 20 Practical, 20 Tactical, 20 VarTarg are the best around (I own all three). You can watch what happens when your bullet hits the PD. Amazing how the 32Vmax blows them apart. At 300 yards, you've got to aim about 4-5 inches above where you want to strike. If there is any wind, it's your best guess how to hold. On one gun the 20 VarTarg is the best. Takes about 18 grains of powder and speeds up to 3850 with the 32 grain Vmax. Superb for prairie dogs.
Mark W
Gold $$ Contributor
If you enjoy hearing a "click" instead of a boom when you pull the trigger and watching as your quarry that was in the crosshairs scurries away: By all means, get the C-Z. My two 527s (esp. a .204 Kevlar Varmint) are accurate as hell when they don't fail to fire
Political statements aside that’s interesting commentary. I have 5 CZs two of which are 527s and I can’t remember having the first FTF nor have I heard about this being a “common problem”. I did a google search and found a few references to problems with light primer strikes. Not sure how common it is compared to happy 527 owners though.
B23
Gold $$ Contributor
Never heard of it being a problem either and I've had a few CZ 527's, currently have three, two 17 Hornets and a 204 Ruger. I have never ever had one single problem with any of them FTF.
Not sure if this is a " which gun or which cartridge" is best ? Seems many others here aren't sure either. That said, the cartridges sure have been covered and not one left out. Almost any gun company makes all of those cartridges as well. If they shoot sub MOA, you have a winner, especially for PDs. For any varmint gun to perform out to 400 yards isn't asking alot whether for accuracy or work on varmints. Lots of great options in all the suggestions here.
I recently jumped on .223 (as has already been said I should have started with it) and brought a Tikka T3x Varmint. I went with the 1:8 but the 1:12 would be excellent based on my experience with my Tikka. Straight out if the box awesome.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.