Best source for a wind chart for f-class using U.S.A. wind flags.

[Joe Wade]

I am looking for an accurate source of wind flag values using flags made in U.S.A.
I reference "the wind book for rifle shooters" by Linda Miller & Keith Cunningham and there
flag charts show a flag that stands straight out as having a 16 Mph value but they state their
Canadian flags are made from a lighter material than the U.S. flags.
I have referenced other charts that give a flag straight out a 20mph value.
I have used both these values in the U.S. and have never had the right wind value.

Here is a picture I saw from the Berger SWN and it has a wind chart that shows a straight out
flag as having a 12 Mph value. Which one is right?

Does anyone have a correct wind value chart they would like to share?

Thanks for any positive advise.

 

[Immike]

Thanks for any positive advise.

Your sure thinking in the right way, math does work. Part of shooting is having a feel for the moment , carefull sighters and strategy wins the match. They call it connecting. No book can teach you this, you have to learn it.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I'd use the picture you have - it isn't correct for every range I've been to. There are subtle differences in flag responses from range to range. I was at Rattlesnake Mountain in Washington last weekend, and the flags stood straight out at 15-16 mph. At 12, they hung a little lower. Fortunately for me, the wind was howling most of the match. At 16-25 and variable angles, it was tough.

Think about what the wind drift is for a 1 mph wind call error and tell me what the score would be on the F-class target @ 1k. The point I'm trying to make is that the flags won't tell you what you need to know in order to shoot good scores. The mirage might tell you when to stop shooting or it might hint at a small change, but that is a very subtle change in the flow pattern or angle.

Long story short, the best shooters in the country know to look around for "tells." There is always something on the range that will tell you what the wind is doing even if that is the misfortune of the guy two down from you.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dont be scared to use a bunch of time during your unlimited sighter period to see what the different prevailing winds do to your bullet. Shoot one in a complete reverse while not holding off and just see where it goes. Thats the only way youll know what that range and your days load will do. Theres no chart thatll tell you i assure you.

 

[aussiepowderburner]

Joe,
You are asking the right question and I don't think you have an answer yet?
I am not into the rule book enough to say whether there is an international flag standard?
Having a brief discussion some time ago with probably our most experienced Australian Palma competitor I know there is a weight / per square foot criteria for their discipline.
Material density - obviously a change in material equals a completely different indicator to a given mph wind condition.
He was actually complaining about the different range to range flag indicators here due to wear on the flag material.
The range we were competing upon had very old flags thus over indicating.

I do know that the flag material used in the U.S. is lighter than that which we use. What we see on the U.S. Flags as a 10-12 mph is really more like 8 mph.

So, you have asked a good question!
The only answer is when you attend a range you have to "calibrate" the flags for yourself! Once happy with that - go back to your hold offs!

I hope I have made some sense towards your original post?

Cheers
APB

 

[Joe Wade]

I have seen many of these wind calculators before. I was questioning which one is correct.
Some show a 20mph wind where other show a 12mph wind with the same flag representation of
the flag standing straight out. Just going through my gear, getting ready for the new season and
wanting to get better results by improving my thinking with quality data that will help me move up
in classification. I realize the wind is very subjective and the bullet on target is the truth for that particular
condition.

Just wanted to know what charts or representations most guys use to get on target with a close wind call.
It is a real confidence builder to make a good wind call on that first shot down range and helps to set the stage for a good mindset to perform at one's best.

I like the idea to be flexible enough to calibrate the flags to the correct wind drift.

Thanks for all the positive replies.

 

[XTR]

The Cunningham's not book is off based on the flags used in the US today. Most of the wind charts for flags that I've seen are based off of the old cotton flags that are not nearly as responsive as the nylon varieties. (the down side is when you shoot someplace where it really blows they are riffling out below 20 and it gets really hard to pick up changes in the 20-25 range )

Most of the US flags are much lighter weight nylon, and will be much more responsive to lower wind speeds than what is shown in the book. If you shoot on a range regularly you really need to get a feel for how the flags at your range look, some ranges have flags that are quite a bit shorter than others. There is no standard or if there is it's not used.

Edit: unsure how that "not" wasn't in there to start with. my post made no sense with out it.

 

[mysticplayer]

The flags represented in the Cunningham book are based on heavier cotton DCRA flags.

The velocity range listed in that book is pretty close until it rains...... things get real interesting with wet cotton flags.

My experience with US NRA flags suggests to me they represent 2 to 3 MPH SLOWER for the same presentation vs chart in that book.

Then you need to figure out how the range and wind flow really affect your bullet but it will at least get you on paper.

Jerry

 

[mysticplayer]

I'd use the picture you have - it isn't correct for every range I've been to. There are subtle differences in flag responses from range to range. I was at Rattlesnake Mountain in Washington last weekend, and the flags stood straight out at 15-16 mph. At 12, they hung a little lower. Fortunately for me, the wind was howling most of the match. At 16-25 and variable angles, it was tough.

Think about what the wind drift is for a 1 mph wind call error and tell me what the score would be on the F-class target @ 1k. The point I'm trying to make is that the flags won't tell you what you need to know in order to shoot good scores. The mirage might tell you when to stop shooting or it might hint at a small change, but that is a very subtle change in the flow pattern or angle.

Long story short, the best shooters in the country know to look around for "tells." There is always something on the range that will tell you what the wind is doing even if that is the misfortune of the guy two down from you.

Yep, thems were some real Spicy winds... Fun times indeed.

Jerry

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Does creedmoor sports have a chart for their flags? Maybe you could ask them if they have anything

 

[Epraslick]

First, to the OP, that flag chart looks about right for US NRA wind flags (at least within 1 MPH). I hate to say it, but it does take time to train your eye with regard to wind speed and flags.

If you look closely and pay attention to the location of the tips of flags, the ripples (if any) and their frequency/amplitude, you can get the wind +/- 1 MPH all the way up to 15-16 MPH.

 

[KT]

First, to the OP, that flag chart looks about right for US NRA wind flags (at least within 1 MPH). I hate to say it, but it does take time to train your eye with regard to wind speed and flags.

If you look closely and pay attention to the location of the tips of flags, the ripples (if any) and their frequency/amplitude, you can get the wind +/- 1 MPH all the way up to 15-16 MPH.

Joe Wade you might want to listen to this guy. He knows a thing or two about wind reading.

Emil 4 post in 4 years. You have a great average going. LOL

KT

 

[manitou210]

Flags at Connaught ranges Ottawa, Canada these flags are heavy material, with flags straight down on pole you can have 2 moa wind, need to be paying attention to mirage. flag with 10 to 4 angle 5 to 7moa with .308 w
When flags are straight out with tips pointing up .308 win you will have
12 to 14 moa to keep on board.
If your using a Nightforce 12 to 42 you better be marking wind every time because you will be in your 3 rd revolution on turrets

 

[Joe Wade]

Thanks for all the positive replies with great information.
Very helpful.

 

[waldo1979]

You might check with Rick Graham at brflags.com. I know I've seen people at our range using a chart like this before.