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Best setup for load development

How does everyone setup for load development? Any tips to share? (I shoot prone and positional stuff, so a seb type rest is not an option.). I want to eliminate me so results are an accurate reflection of rifle/load.

I ran a simple test today.
  • On bench with bipod. (Next Best)
  • On bench with bags. (Best)
  • Prone with tripod. (Worst)
I feel more accurate prone, so results were a little surprising.

Results.jpg

Off Bench With Bags.jpg
Off Bench With Bipod.jpg
Prone With Bipod.jpg
 
Here is what I use

Front Rest – Sinclair Heavy Varmint Shooting (with windage adjustment)

Rear Bag – Edgewood MiniGator

Optic – Nightforce Benchrest Rifle Scope (12-42 x 56 / 0.125 MOA Dot NP-2DD reticle)

Specific AR Equipment – Bob Sled single loading block

Rings & Mount Combo – A.R.M.S. Throw Lever (Picatinny type)

Specific AR Equipment – Sinclair 3x6 inch front bag rider

Specific AR Equipment – WOA rear bag rider

Target – ¼ inch white dot centered on 1 inch black paster aim point, mounted to target paper

Chronograph – Magnetospeed V3
 
Do you think the front/rear bags bench reduced vertical dispersion is the result of better/more comfortable support of the butt sitting at the bench? Are you going to change/experiment with rear prone bipod support after seeing the results?
 
Do you think the front/rear bags bench reduced vertical dispersion is the result of better/more comfortable support of the butt sitting at the bench? Are you going to change/experiment with rear prone bipod support after seeing the results?
I did that awhile back actually. As of now, im equally as comfortable in all positions. When prone, I get more vertical and iffy eye relief setting up lower (normal) to the ground. I get the best results when getting the gun up higher, thus the two tall rear bags and full leg extension. Prob because im a big guy (6'5" 290).
 
Speaking strictly in terms of load development, I want to eliminate me, the shooter, as a variable as much as possible. My goal is to determine the load which will produce the most consistent groups for the standard I have established. For varmint / predator hunting, ideally that's 1/2 to 5/8 moa.

I found nothing better than the Caldwell tack driver front rest and an owl ear rear rest. The Caldwell front rest eliminates most lateral movement but also allows normal recoil. Once I find an acceptable load that has been confirmed with a few 5 shot groups, I move off the bench and sight in for the manner in which I intend to use the rifle which for me is shooting cross sticks. All my range time is spent in performance shooting off the sticks once I have an adequate load.

In other words, I keep load development a separate endeavor from performance shooting.
 
When developing loads I want the most stable arrangement for the gun possible that allows it to recoil smoothly straight back either prone or off a bench. Normally I use a good front rest either my Sinclair or Rodzilla and a good rear bag. I want to take as many human variables as possible out of the equation. A bag up front would be ok as long as it is consistent and allows for smooth recoil. Bipods can be good too as long as the shooter knows how to use them properly. You have to make sure they recoil smoothly and don’t jump or hop around.
The worst mistake I see shooters make when developing loads is using a Lead Sled. The Lead Sled doesn’t let the gun recoil properly which can cause it to “jump” (the recoil force has to go somewhere). The recoil force when the gun is constrained not only detracts from accuracy but it doesn’t do a rifle scope much good either.
 
If I'm at a friends farm, I use a Caldwell Rock BR and rear bag. The bench is too short for my SEB mini-x. Otherwise, it will be prone at the range to verify loads at distance.
 
Speaking strictly in terms of load development, I want to eliminate me, the shooter, as a variable as much as possible. My goal is to determine the load which will produce the most consistent groups for the standard I have established. For varmint / predator hunting, ideally that's 1/2 to 5/8 moa.

I found nothing better than the Caldwell tack driver front rest and an owl ear rear rest. The Caldwell front rest eliminates most lateral movement but also allows normal recoil. Once I find an acceptable load that has been confirmed with a few 5 shot groups, I move off the bench and sight in for the manner in which I intend to use the rifle which for me is shooting cross sticks. All my range time is spent in performance shooting off the sticks once I have an adequate load.

In other words, I keep load development a separate endeavor from performance shooting.
Exactly, this is what I want to do as well.
 
Bench, rear bag, and bipod just like i hunt PDs. I also only test when its not too windy. This is especially true for testing something that drifts a lot such as 17 hornet. If I was into prone I would test like that. I find it so unbelievably uncomfortable I can't shoot well or tolerate it for very long.
 
When I look at each of those setups, the rear bag looks problematic to me for a couple reasons. I don’t want the butt of the gun to be captured inside the bag when I take the shot. I want the gun butt to the rear of the bag so the ears are restraining lateral movement but allowing straight line movement.

The other thing that jumps out is I see no way to get behind the gun without making shoulder and/or chest contact with the rear bag and influencing the aim point on every shot.

I’m just a BR guy though, so I look at things from that perspective.
 
Do you think the front/rear bags bench reduced vertical dispersion is the result of better/more comfortable support of the butt sitting at the bench? Are you going to change/experiment with rear prone bipod support after seeing the results?
When I do the bench rest set up properly I get nice well rounded groups that seem to translate well to the prone position with coat and sling. If I get groups with a lot of vertical or horizontal they're telling me that there is something in my bench set up that is not right. I find that and fix it before I continue with the testing.
 
I use the same equipment I'm going to a match with. The only
difference is the bench used at that time. If not concrete and
steel, make sure your bench is up to it. Most are not.....
 
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When I look at each of those setups, the rear bag looks problematic to me for a couple reasons. I don’t want the butt of the gun to be captured inside the bag when I take the shot. I want the gun butt to the rear of the bag so the ears are restraining lateral movement but allowing straight line movement.

The other thing that jumps out is I see no way to get behind the gun without making shoulder and/or chest contact with the rear bag and influencing the aim point on every shot.

I’m just a BR guy though, so I look at things from that perspective.
Hey you said a few things here that are novel to me and I want to try, thanks for the reply. Talk to me more about rear bag. I haven't ordered a bag rider for this chassis yet, so I only have a little real estate to work with that inevitably must live more or less inside the bag as you said. Also, I do end up contacting the bag with my chest, way more when in prone too actually.

I belong to two ranges, one with benches like you see here, the other standard concrete benches. If I sit at the bench the way they are designed (the way an average person would address it), rifle ends up halfway down the upper part of my arm, head needs to tilt too far right, and generally feels way too unnatural from normal (pretty much centered under right eye and as high as possible, more off the collar bone). Plus neither style of bench are long enough for my rifle in normal configuration, so I end up turning the one in the pictures around to get more real estate. Concrete ones im back behind the center of the bench, support pole between my legs.

So, sounds like a bag rider is in order to get the butt end un-burried, ill def do that next. What are some things I could try to get my chest off the bags? Could I lower or raise the platform? Backing up isn't really an option, cause id need to move the scope back to get eye relief in a way which won't work for when im not on bench/prone. Is it as simple as just needing to sit at the bench normally and live with addressing the rifle more to the side like normal for load development?

For what it's worth, I dont see the rifle is moving whatsoever when setup (chest influence I mean). Very light pressure with cheek/jaw, and 1/8" or so off shoulder in what I call free recoil, but you guys would prob call a modified free recoil or soft hold.
 
Hey you said a few things here that are novel to me and I want to try, thanks for the reply. Talk to me more about rear bag. I haven't ordered a bag rider for this chassis yet, so I only have a little real estate to work with that inevitably must live more or less inside the bag as you said. Also, I do end up contacting the bag with my chest, way more when in prone too actually.

I belong to two ranges, one with benches like you see here, the other standard concrete benches. If I sit at the bench the way they are designed (the way an average person would address it), rifle ends up halfway down the upper part of my arm, head needs to tilt too far right, and generally feels way too unnatural from normal (pretty much centered under right eye and as high as possible, more off the collar bone). Plus neither style of bench are long enough for my rifle in normal configuration, so I end up turning the one in the pictures around to get more real estate. Concrete ones im back behind the center of the bench, support pole between my legs.

So, sounds like a bag rider is in order to get the butt end un-burried, ill def do that next. What are some things I could try to get my chest off the bags? Could I lower or raise the platform? Backing up isn't really an option, cause id need to move the scope back to get eye relief in a way which won't work for when im not on bench/prone. Is it as simple as just needing to sit at the bench normally and live with addressing the rifle more to the side like normal for load development?

For what it's worth, I dont see the rifle is moving whatsoever when setup (chest influence I mean). Very light pressure with cheek/jaw, and 1/8" or so off shoulder in what I call free recoil, but you guys would prob call a modified free recoil or soft hold.
You will notice in the equipment list that I provided that I use both front and rear bag riders.

I am not a benchrest competitor but when I decided to shoot groups from the bench to determine accuracy I studied what they do and the equipment they use. If you are going to use the bench make the most of it and learn from the experts, bench rest competitors.
 
Hey you said a few things here that are novel to me and I want to try, thanks for the reply. Talk to me more about rear bag. I haven't ordered a bag rider for this chassis yet, so I only have a little real estate to work with that inevitably must live more or less inside the bag as you said. Also, I do end up contacting the bag with my chest, way more when in prone too actually.

I belong to two ranges, one with benches like you see here, the other standard concrete benches. If I sit at the bench the way they are designed (the way an average person would address it), rifle ends up halfway down the upper part of my arm, head needs to tilt too far right, and generally feels way too unnatural from normal (pretty much centered under right eye and as high as possible, more off the collar bone). Plus neither style of bench are long enough for my rifle in normal configuration, so I end up turning the one in the pictures around to get more real estate. Concrete ones im back behind the center of the bench, support pole between my legs.

So, sounds like a bag rider is in order to get the butt end un-burried, ill def do that next. What are some things I could try to get my chest off the bags? Could I lower or raise the platform? Backing up isn't really an option, cause id need to move the scope back to get eye relief in a way which won't work for when im not on bench/prone. Is it as simple as just needing to sit at the bench normally and live with addressing the rifle more to the side like normal for load development?

For what it's worth, I dont see the rifle is moving whatsoever when setup (chest influence I mean). Very light pressure with cheek/jaw, and 1/8" or so off shoulder in what I call free recoil, but you guys would prob call a modified free recoil or soft hold.
Just looking at your setup I see your rear bags on both bench and prone are actually intended more for PRS and other field shooting. For only bench or prone attempting to shoot the best groups where the only consideration is accuracy, nobody uses that.

Look at some YouTube of benchrest and fclass. Their bags are more like the one I use. When I am field shooting and walking around I use a tab i think it is cuz it is light and versatile. My bag with heavy sand is a tank to lug just from the truck to the bench 20 feet.

DSC_1359.jpgDSC_0304~2.jpgDSC_0633.jpgDSC_0301~2.jpg
 
I used those rear bags (square,soft,floppy, bean bags) for many years, often thought it was tough to shoot groups well with them. Since I often switch between bolt,AR, muzzleloader,rimfire and even slug guns I blamed inconsistent shooting on the refusal to concentrate one type of firearm. I really noticed it when shooting 100 yard rimfire benchrest. So I purchased a protector eared bag. That and adjustable front rest has made group shooting much easier, load development is easier as all I have to do is watch the wind(especially helpful with 100 yard rimfire). That's why I was trying to lead you, into questioning your choice of rear support for group shooting.
 
I know little, but this stacked bags do you no service.
No it may be steady when your looking through the glass, it’s what you don’t see under recoil that gets you.
Your groups look good, numbers could stand some work.
I have some blocks for my rear bag when and if I need to raise my rear bag for what ever reason.
I refuse to do serious load work with a bipod, short of a wide stable F class style.

I did not have my blocks with me this past weekend to raise the rear bag, along with not having my good one. Had a flyer or two and was going horizontal consistently.

I just watched some “mark&sam afterwork”on bag set up, think I know my problem now.
 

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