Best of the west TV show, long range shooting

[habu]

THANK YOU PAUL! - HABU

SEMPER FI
MAJOR RON HERMS
USMC,RET)

 

[jthyttin]

Some comments:

- BDC scopes and windage hold-off reticles won't reliably work for the longest distances BOTW uses them, just as CatShooter said

- most LR hunters do in fact consider themselves to have "unlimited sighters", just like lynn said

However, the BDC and windage hold-off works for ranges up to 300y or something on big game. And they're easy on average fellow. Whether Huskemaw would be the top pick for such scope is another story...

I thought that Berger is listed as sponsor on BOTW website. Since it's not, I also find it a bit unethical for Eric to defend BOTW without disclosing this info. But maybe he thought it's commonly known? Maybe it's said in the TV show?

 

[billmo]

Good to see you back Catshooter. Defend yourself and your credentials against this non-sense. This is the type of info that readers want., The Cold Hard Facts ) Which you always deliver. Keep up the good work. Bill

 

[jb77]

Catshooter would you be so kind as to send me a PM of were you are hanging around at now. Things are a little stale without your unique sense of humor.

 

[CatShooter]

Good to see you back Catshooter. Defend yourself and your credentials against this non-sense. This is the type of info that readers want., The Cold Hard Facts ) Which you always deliver. Keep up the good work. Bill

Thanks Billmo - but I'm not back... just passing through, cleaning up Eric's poor,and erroneous) comments.

I play on SniperCountry and PM, where the folks have a sense of humor, and BS sinks to the bottom of the toilet.


.

 

[billmo]

Thanks for the info. I'll see you there. Bill

 

[jb77]

Eric, while I use your companies bullets and I have a lot of respect for your work in the ballistics field, I find it a little disturbing that you did not at first ask what Catshooters and Habu's credintials were before you slammed them.

Catshooter and I have had our differences on this forum and he certainly doesn't need me to take his side. He is an interesting and and knowledgeable poster and while I don't always agree with what he says he has my respect.



Sincerely John Byrd.

 

[Forum Boss]

jb77,

Put things in perspective... We are just talking about differing views about a TV show... and I can tell you I've never seen ANY gun-related show on television that really could take the time and go into the details to tell the full story.

I'm not taking a position on this particular show one way or another since I don't have the first-hand knowledge. I haven't seen the show, haven't hunted with these guys, haven't seen them shoot, haven't tried the scope, so I'm not in a position to judge.

But I would say concerns about what some TV personality says on his TV show wouldn't keep me from shooting the best bullets in my rifle. If Berger bullets work for you, keep shooting them.

 

[rstreich]

I've never watched the show or even heard of this outfit before this thread. I've never even bothered to visit their site until 10 minutes ago. Catshooter's summary was enough for me to not even bother. But after the recent flurry I decided to poke around. It took me about 30 seconds to come across their ad for the $76,Graf's price) Redding Case Trimmer that they were selling at the fantastic price of $120. Curiously, it didn't say "Redding" anywhere in the description of the product. I didn't bother looking around at anything else as I have no interest in giving their site any traffic.

Eric, all I can say is that you should really reconsider your sponsorship of this outfit.

jb77, Yeah, Eric was out of line with his post,Someone out of line jumping on Catshooter? Never thought I'd say that!). I've seen a few other times where I thought he was out of line jumping on someone. Give him a break. He's earned a few of 'em in my book.

I started buying a lot more Berger bullets since Eric started popping up on the boards just because I believe in supporting companies who show that level of involvement. He sticks his neck out, takes his lumps, etc. I appreciate the huge risks he has taken in the last couple of years with informative announcements like die replacements, discussions about bullet failure, etc. Have you seen any other company do anything like that?

Reactions like yours are the reason why we don't see more company reps out on the boards. I hope you'll reconsider it.

robert,just an innocent bystander)

 

[Airboatdriver]

I ahve been reading this site for a couple of years but I never sighed on or posted anything til now. I have shot benchrest at the local level. nothing serious, but I do have decent rifles and some of them are tight neck and I am familar with most of the technecal proceedures. I now shoot mostly egg shoots at 300 and 500 yards, so I do shoot pretty well. And I shoot crows and ground hogs. I have read a lot of things that catshooter has written. Both here and on some other websites and he can be a hand full sometimes. but the only time I have seen him get hot was when someone was shoveling the BS. He has taken a lot of time to help new guys, without talking down to them, and he makes hard stuff real easy to understand. Most of the time I understand his scientific things, i think, but he wrote something a few months ago about bullets pointing down or not. and it went over my head because i didn't understand the physics. So I printed it out and send it to the head of the physics department at the college and about a month later, I got a letter back that said that catshooter was right with what he said, and the head of the department invitred me to come and see their gyroscopic lab. I didn't because it was too far to go and I don't have the time. the point is that the guy knows his crap, and he doesn't step on people for fun.
Yesterday I read something on another site about case crush making ackleys, and catshooter was talking to another gunsmith about 0.004 was not enough crush. This guy called ackman made a post, and most everybody knows there is no love lost between them.
Well i was suprised that after ackmans post, catshooter said it was a great post full of a lot of good information. that proves that he doesn't just get on peoples case and when you say something good, he gives you credit, even if you called him names the day before.
I know that if I asked him a question he won't talk down to me or blow smoke up my butt. If he doesn't know he will say so instead of blowing smoke and trying to sound like he knows something that he doesnt. it is sad that he is not here anymore but i read him on other sites anyway.

Anyway. I signed up to say that even though I have used berger bullets before and I have some in my house now - I will never buy another berger product ever again. I think the moderator is wrong - it isnot about a tv show - it is about what is right and what is wrong, and eric is dead wrong. and he lied to all of us, and berger is hooked up with a ripoff company.

This best of the west company is selling redding stuff for 120 dollars when you can buy the same stuff for 70 dollars at midwayusa. that is real poor. It is obvious that the best of the west company is lookig for suckers and I'll bet if old man Walt Berger was still running things he would ahve a fit.

[Editor's Note: See my post below. 1) The product sold by Midway is not the same as the 1400-XT listed by BOTW; 2) Looking at a variety of products sold by BOTW, it appears that most products are priced the same as MidwayUSA, or a small % higher--which can easily be accounted for by the volume discounts MidwayUSA gets on wholesale products.]

So no more berger ANYTHING for me ... [edited] because when you buy Berger bullets some of your money is going to best of the west. That's about all i have to say about it.

 

[billmo]

Airboatdriver, I've told these guys over and over that Catshooter has forgotten more than most of us will ever learn.
And, the info that he wrote that was supposed to be so dangerous and wrong was nowhere near as wrong and dangerous as some really ignorant and dangerous stuff,like telling a new comer to handloading that a reloading manual was useless and advising not to even look inside of one) that was allowed to stay on the forum with no arguements or correction of any kind. It may very well still be on here. I have no clue as to whether it was ever deleted or not. If not then it certainly needs to be removed and the writer banned from the forum. But, that is somebody elses job.

Point is Catshooter deserves an apology. He's done nothing wrong. He is direct and to the point with his writings and will let you know in a skinny minute when you are saying something that is not right. He has contacted me in the past when I made a statement that he thought needed correction and you know I appreciate that. Simply because facts spilled out on this forum need to be the truth. So, if you are going to delete one man's writngs that is concluded "bad info" then delete all bad info from everybody. Nuff said. Lots of newcomers are reading what is written here. Bill

 

[Forum Boss]

Donovan is correct: the 1400-XT is not the same as the model 1400 sold elsewhere for $70-$85.00.

Looking at other items on the BOTW store, I see most products carry average prices.

Here are a few examples:

Case Tumbler Master kit
BOTW Price: $69.99 | Midway Price: $64.99 Product 414369

Frankford Arsenal Dial Caliper 6" Stainless Steel
BOTW Price: $25.99 | Midway Price: $25.99 Product 119623

Tipton Best Gun Vise
BOTW Price: $99.99 | Midway Price: $99.99 Product 110829

Level-Level-Level Scope Leveling Tool
BOTW Price: $19.99 | Midway Regular price: $19.99 Product 529349,on sale for $9.99 for two more weeks)

Tipton Ultra Jag Kit
BOTW Price: $22.99 | Midway Price: $22.99 Product 812503

Wipe-Out Bore Cleaner
BOTW Price: $11.99 | Midway Price: $9.79 Product 784639


I think it may be over-reacting to look at one product,the Redding Trimmer) and conclude that BOTW is grossly overcharging on all of its items. That is jumping to conclusions, and it's probably unfair to draw a conclusion that BOTW are "crooks". If anything, it looks like BOTW matches the Midway pricing very closely most of the time. This is significant because many of these items are produced by Midway subsidiaries,Tipton, Caldwell etc.), so Midway can undercut other retailers easily. I'm actually surprised the BOTW can match Midway pricing in most cases. That's hard to do when you purchase in small quantities.

Keep in mind that most mfgs and wholesalers discount their prices significantly to high-volume retailers. In some cases, a small business buying 5 units may pay 100% more/unit than a big business buying 100 units. So it's always difficult for a smaller retailer to match the big vendors' prices.

I don't have an informed opinion on the merits of what is broadcast on BOTW, but I don't see a general pattern of "rip-off" pricing in BOTW's online store. Whatever BOTW's other sins may be,real or imagined), I don't see a widespread pattern of excessive pricing.