Best Neck Turner 2013?

[butchlambert]

Wayne,
I never change mine. I use one for the PPC and the other for the 30BR. It is very rare that I need anything else, If I do I get out my old K&M.

 

[bozo699]

Butch,
It's why I have so many neck turners, I rarely ever change mine either, however I have found the PMA to be very quick to change and pretty darn repeatable, I think I have about 6 NT-4000 neck turners, each one set for a different cartridge, for ppc's I have two K&M's for each so I take so much the first pass and then a final cut, NEVER have touched them since I first set them, it is just easier that way for me.
Wayne.

 

[Erik Cortina]

The issue with the PMA is that it can not be chucked on the lathe. I chuck my neck turner on a mini lathe and hold case with 21st century case holder on the tailstock and feed it in and out, very accurate and fast. The neck turner never stops turning.

 

[bozo699]

The issue with the PMA is that it can not be chucked on the lathe. I chuck my neck turner on a mini lathe and hold case with 21st century case holder on the tailstock and feed it in and out, very accurate and fast. The neck turner never stops turning.

Erik,
What neck turner are you using on your mini lathe?
Wayne.

 

[Phil3]

Regarding the PMA tool, I see how it is different in that the adjustment mechanism moves the mandrel vs the cutter. I have to ask, "so what"? Is there some inherent advantage over moving one part vs the other?

Phil

Phil,
Most of the turners move the mandrel instead of the cutter, The difference is the PMA is not on a centric like most of the others, the PMA is extremely user friendly and very fast to set up, I also agree the Pumpkin does a great job, I had one, it is in the mail to a member right now, takes too long to set up, I am not very patient.
Wayne.

I don't know how the eccentric mechanism works in some cutters, but I still don't know why that approach is supposedly inferior to moving the mandrel in a straight line. Or, why moving the mandrel is superior to moving the cutter.

From what I can see, the PMA seems like a simpler design, even if by virtue of having fewer screws to fiddle with. But, costs appear very far apart.

21stCentury:
Kit = Tool, carbide cutter, titanium nitrate arbor, titanium nitrate mandrel, and mandrel die w/lock ring for $125.
Total Cost = $125.00

PMA Tool:
Tool = $109.95 (assuming comes with stainless arbor, site does not say which).
Carbide arbor = $49.95 (may or may not be as good as 21stCentury titanium nitrate arbor) = $49.95.
Expander mandrel = 8.95 (did not see this included with the PMA tool).
Mandrel expander die = $21.95 (a 21stCentury product sold by PMA).
Total Cost = $190.80

I like the PMA, but it seems much more costly than the 21stCentury. Am I missing something here?

Phil

 

[Erik Cortina]

The issue with the PMA is that it can not be chucked on the lathe. I chuck my neck turner on a mini lathe and hold case with 21st century case holder on the tailstock and feed it in and out, very accurate and fast. The neck turner never stops turning.

Erik,
What neck turner are you using on your mini lathe?
Wayne.

Pumpkin and 21st Century. The pumpkin can be spun really fast because it's concentric. The 21st century can be spun up to 250 rpm, which is more than plenty as I turn necks at about 180 rpm.

 

[bozo699]

The issue with the PMA is that it can not be chucked on the lathe. I chuck my neck turner on a mini lathe and hold case with 21st century case holder on the tailstock and feed it in and out, very accurate and fast. The neck turner never stops turning.

Erik,
What neck turner are you using on your mini lathe?
Wayne.

Pumpkin and 21st Century. The pumpkin can be spun really fast because it's concentric. The 21st century can be spun up to 250 rpm, which is more than plenty as I turn necks at about 180 rpm.

Erik,
Are you using a 4 jaw or are you making a special mandrel that sticks way out the back? I am interested because I have a mini and could try this, I like doing the process by hand since usually I do not do over 100 at a time and it does not take all that long but always looking to improve my processes, thanks in advance Erik.
Wayne.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Wayne, PM me your email address.

 

[Phil3]

I just called PMA. The $109.95 tool does NOT come with ANY arbor. You have to at least buy the stainless arbor for $8.95 to make the tool work. Or opt for the $49.95 arbor. Without question, the 21st Century tool is much less expensive.

Phil

 

[bozo699]

I just called PMA. The $109.95 tool does NOT come with ANY arbor. You have to at least buy the stainless arbor for $8.95 to make the tool work. Or opt for the $49.95 arbor. Without question, the 21st Century tool is much less expensive.

Phil

I own them both, much less in a lot of ways in my opinion, your talking peanuts in prices there!
Wayne.

 

[Phil3]

I just called PMA. The $109.95 tool does NOT come with ANY arbor. You have to at least buy the stainless arbor for $8.95 to make the tool work. Or opt for the $49.95 arbor. Without question, the 21st Century tool is much less expensive.

Phil

I own them both, much less in a lot of ways in my opinion, your talking peanuts in prices there!
Wayne.

Can you elaborate on why the 21stCentury is "...much less in a lot of ways..."? Trying to make an informed purchasing decision. I'll pay the extra $$$, but would like to more fully understand what I am getting for the additional $66 or so.

Phil

 

[bozo699]

I just called PMA. The $109.95 tool does NOT come with ANY arbor. You have to at least buy the stainless arbor for $8.95 to make the tool work. Or opt for the $49.95 arbor. Without question, the 21st Century tool is much less expensive.

Phil

Phil,
I think John makes nice tools, I just own both and the PMA feels much nicer in your hand, John told me to send his turner back and he would fix the back lah problem it has, he is top notch to work with, I like his stuff, of course a carbon mandrel is better then a coated mandrel but I have both and they both work well, I have the complete lathe set up that John sells, and I have set it up and used it, it works fine but when you have turned as much brass as I have holding the turner is no big deal, your hands will auto center it when you get the knack of it, I have K&M, Sinclair, Hart, Pumpkin, 21st century, and the PMA turners, IMO the PMA has them all beat hands down, now if you want to use Eriks way with a lathe then maybe there would be other considerations, they all will do a good job, the K&M's and the Pumpkin are the slowest to setup, the Nt-4000 and PMA are the easiest, with the PMA even much faster then the Nt-4000 the Nt-4000, PMA, and Pumpkin are the easiest of them all to hang onto, and if you have big hands the Pumpkin is the best as far as that goes followed by the Nt-4000, the PMA is a little small but still feels well in your hand, Johns is't all that bad either, The K&M is terrible without the after thought holder for it.
Wayne.

 

[bozo699]

I just called PMA. The $109.95 tool does NOT come with ANY arbor. You have to at least buy the stainless arbor for $8.95 to make the tool work. Or opt for the $49.95 arbor. Without question, the 21st Century tool is much less expensive.

Phil

I own them both, much less in a lot of ways in my opinion, your talking peanuts in prices there!
Wayne.

Can you elaborate on why the 21stCentury is "...much less in a lot of ways..."? Trying to make an informed purchasing decision. I'll pay the extra $$$, but would like to more fully understand what I am getting for the additional $66 or so.

Phil

Phil,
It is not much less of a tool, as a matter of a fact it is a very good tool, and there are not many people that are better to deal with then it's maker John, I have nothing but praise to say about him and his products, I just for some reason like the PMA above all others I have tried, maybe just a personal preference, I will tell you what, if your turning 6mm stuff I could send you both but I would need the PMA back as soon as possible as I use it a lot and you could see for yourself, I also have a spare NT-4000 I could send you.
Wayne.

 

[bozo699]

P.S Pat at PMA is also very good to deal with.
Wayne.

 

[Phil3]

I just called PMA. The $109.95 tool does NOT come with ANY arbor. You have to at least buy the stainless arbor for $8.95 to make the tool work. Or opt for the $49.95 arbor. Without question, the 21st Century tool is much less expensive.

Phil

I own them both, much less in a lot of ways in my opinion, your talking peanuts in prices there!
Wayne.

Can you elaborate on why the 21stCentury is "...much less in a lot of ways..."? Trying to make an informed purchasing decision. I'll pay the extra $$$, but would like to more fully understand what I am getting for the additional $66 or so.

Phil

Phil,
It is not much less of a tool, as a matter of a fact it is a very good tool, and there are not many people that are better to deal with then it's maker John, I have nothing but praise to say about him and his products, I just for some reason like the PMA above all others I have tried, maybe just a personal preference, I will tell you what, if your turning 6mm stuff I could send you both but I would need the PMA back as soon as possible as I use it a lot and you could see for yourself, I also have a spare NT-4000 I could send you.
Wayne.

Wayne,

Your offer is most generous, and I appreciate your trust and willingness to go to the trouble of helping me. I am not turning 6mm right now (6mmBR is neck on the list of rifles), so could not test out your tools. Your experience with other tools and enthusiasm for the PMA are steering me toward the PMA. Their carbide arbors are expensive at $50 each! Do you use those or the stainless? If the latter, how do they perform? Get too hot, or?

Again, thank you for your generous offer.

Phil

 

[bozo699]

I would weigh everyones opinions, these are just my opinions and we all have them, I have never been a Ford/Chevy/Dodge man, I drive what works for me, I was a mechanic for a number of years and feel all three are good vehicles or they would not be in business,...I know all about the bail out! I live in very steep hill country and own a cattle ranch so I pull up hill all the time and feel the Dodge with the cummins is the right vehicle for the job, I feel the same about neck turners, if I was only going to turn one cartridge with the turner and never change it, I would buy the K&M or the model B PMA, If I could only afford one turner and needed it to do all my work, I would buy the Nt-4000 with there case so I could house all my tooling for it, or I would buy a case and buy the PMA but you will be in it more money as you know. I only have the PMA in 6mm, and I only have the Carbide mandrels for it but no it does not run hot but I use his lube generously and I never have to give it a cool off time.
Wayne.

P.S I think each turner has some qualities that stand above the others, for me the PMA has the most qualities that stand out for me. for others it might be the 21st century or even the little K&M, as a matter of a fact if you took a poll I would bet K&M would have the popular vote and I do not like them at all if I ever have to change there settings, but that's just one mans opinion,.....Oh and your very welcome,...any time.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I was going to email this to Wayne, but I figured I would share with everyone.

CLICK ON PICTURE TO VIEW VIDEO.

This is a video using a pumpkin turner. If you notice, after I set it up, I remove the bottom portion of the turner, the part that has the graduations on it for the fine adjustments. This will expose enough of the mandrel to chuck it up on the lathe.

 

[Erik Cortina]

This is with the 21st Century neck turner.

 

[Erik Cortina]

This is a thread I started back when I started using the mini lathe.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3800995.msg36149015#msg36149015

 

[butchlambert]

Erick,
I would be concerned about your setup. Very hard to get a tailstock and chuck aligned. I personally prefer the brass in the collet and holding the neck turning tool.
Good luck with it.