Best method for measuring distance to lands?

[Tsu45]

Assuming a brand new rifle, what is y’all favorite method for measuring the distance to the lands?

I have the Hornady equipment to do this, but no fired brass to compare base to shoulder length difference between the fired case and the modified case.

I’m always looking for new ways to shave extra consumables out of the load workup process.

Anybody tried this method? I would have to figure out how to disasssemble the TL3 bolt:

 

[powderbrake]

I use the Wheeler Method for finding bullet touch and I also use it to set the sizing die on fired rounds.

A new rifle bullet seat depth is going to change a bit after firing a few rounds, but that's OK, it's a relative number. You have to look at the target to determine your best seating depth and powder load.

 

[Richard Coody]

Assuming a brand new rifle, what is y’all favorite method for measuring the distance to the lands?

I have the Hornady equipment to do this, but no fired brass to compare base to shoulder length difference between the fired case and the modified case.

I’m always looking for new ways to shave extra consumables out of the load workup process.

Anybody tried this method? I would have to figure out how to disasssemble the TL3 bolt:

http://www.deadcentersports.com/index.html

 

[Jeff A]

I have a new rifle and tried the Wheeler method fore the first time. I am fortunate in that I have a quality action and I have a Sinclair/Wilson Micro Adjust seating die. With this combination, it works just like the Alex Wheeler video. I do have some rifles that would be problematic to mimic the results of my new rifle due to the design of the action.

 

[PatMiles]

One suggestion which will sacrifice one piece of brass, bump the shoulder of said piece of brass .015"-.020". Doing so before you go in search of the lands (Wheeler method) will assure that the only resistance you feel when closing the bolt is created by the bullet meeting the lands.
YMMV!

 

[expiper]

OP,,,over the years I have found good results using a resized (or NEW) case that chanbers easily,,,then I seat a bullet in this case and then pull that bullet a cupla times ,,,this loosens the grip that the case neck has on the bullet,,,then when seated long and inserted and pushed into place when closing the bolt you get a very accurate mesaurement of "touch" length,,,do it a few times and it becomes EZ and repeatable,,,you dont have to field strip the fire control to do this because the case neck still has enuff grip to hold the bullet in place in spite of the MI style spring loaded plunger type of ejectors used on most rifles today,,,,,just my hillbilly method that seems to work for me,,,Roger

 

[Richard Coody]

well the way i see this is all you are looking for is a repeatable datum that you can use for seating depth test. nothing magical about "touch". in fact as the throat erodes that point is sure to move. lots of ways to skin this cat. personally i would prefer not to have to strip my bolt every time i want to try another bullet or check throat erosion. i use the tried and true stoney point. i drive the bullet to a hard jam. for me that is a very easy and repeatable datum. whatever works for you is fine by me.

 

[natdscott]

I prefer the straight-line Sinclair tool.

With a new barrel, I use 3 random bullets of each type, and 3 casings. With these, I get 9 careful readings, average them, and consider that to be "touch" length of the virgin chamber.

From there, loads start at 10, 30, 50 off.

I track the throat every few hundred rounds, using the SAME three bullets and casings which are labeled in a bag per each barrel.

 

[Richard Coody]

I prefer the straight-line Sinclair tool.

With a new barrel, I use 3 random bullets of each type, and 3 casings. With these, I get 9 careful readings, average them, and consider that to be "touch" length of the virgin chamber.

From there, loads start at 10, 30, 50 off.

I track the throat every few hundred rounds, using the SAME three bullets and casings which are labeled in a bag per each barrel.

this one looks very nice. will be going in my collection soon

http://www.deadcentersports.com/index.html

depends on what i am doing.

with a range rifle i always start at a hard jam and work out in .005 increments. with a hunting rifle i start mag length and back off 0.010 increments.

 

[Clancy]

The Hornady tool is more than good enough as a baseline. Ultimately I don’t care how far a bullet is seated in a case as long as it works.

Might be 16, might be 24 off, it doesn’t matter to me. A bullet has no measurable idea where it’s seated, it just likes it or doesn’t.

I start with a half decent 20 off measurement and move up and down 4,8 and 12 thou and usually find something. If it’s a VLD I’ll try a light jam and make sure I can extract a loaded round 5-6 times.

Don’t sweat it.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

My way of thinking on this subject is simple...I don't think one way is "better" than another unless you are mostly interested in conveying it on a forum. In which case, if everyone uses a different method...you get different answers. Simple as that.

I typically start at full jam, which I refer to as, the point where a given neck tension will allow the bullet to seat to a point, and no further. It works for me and it only leaves one direction to go with seating depth. But, it doesn't tell "you" a very specific number.

Every barrel/load is different. You have to test for yourself. It makes little if any difference at all where someone else starts or uses as a reference for your load and your barrel.

 

[cw308]

I use the strip bolt method in sizing the case and seating the bullet , I fine it very accurate . I shoot a Rem. 700 very easy to strip the bolt and changed the spring in the ejector plunger , plunger is flush with bolt face , fired case when I bring the bolt to the rear , the case sits in the follower don't like chasing my brass . I full length size every time using he competition shell holder set of 5 to .0015 to .002 no more or less.

I don't soft seat the bullet and chamber because the bullet will grip the rifling when removing the bullet will back out of the case alittle screwing up the measurement . I seat long with regular neck tension , lower the die very little each time until bolt closes with very little resistance , that's zero . But first you have to do the same system with the sizing die to get the headspace . Pretty fool proof way . Once you have the zero on both you will know how much jump or jam and headspace for your case .

 

[JimSC]

I have used two methods, a Stoney Point/Hornady tool and a home made loose fit necked case.

For the home made version I will also take a sized case and run a inside neck reamer through it so the bullet slips in and out easily. Then I take my FL bushing die which has no expander button or decapping rod installed and back out the bushing adjustment almost all the way. I lube the case and proceed to size it but leave the press up. Then start screwing the bushing adjustment in until I feel it contact the neck, lower the ram, tighten bushing 1/8 th turn and resize the case. Try the test bullet to see if it can be slipped into the case easily but needs enough force so that it will not slip. This is a judgement call, too loose and the bullet may stick in the lands and pull out of the case, too tight and you might indent the copper jacket when you close the bolt. Keep increasing the amount of neck you are sizing until you feel comfortable that it is tight but not too tight

Since I set my sizing dies to the GO gage length that I used to install the barrel it was no surprise that when I did this last week on a new barrel the Hornady gage and the home made gage both came out with the same answer

edit - The Hornady modified gage is SAMMI speced as are your new unfired cases so just go by the Hornady to break in the rifle. Then you will have some fored cases. Barrels take a few rounds to settle out anyway in my experience, which admittedly is limited

 

[K22]

I use a homemade version of the Frankford Arsenal tool (illustrated in Midway's catalog). It's simple, inexpensive, and reliable if you understand that bullet ogives vary somewhat from bullet to bullet.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I have used two methods, a Stoney Point/Hornady tool and a home made loose fit necked case.

For the home made version I will also take a sized case and run a inside neck reamer through it so the bullet slips in and out easily. Then I take my FL bushing die which has no expander button or decapping rod installed and back out the bushing adjustment almost all the way. I lube the case and proceed to size it but leave the press up. Then start screwing the bushing adjustment in until I feel it contact the neck, lower the ram, tighten bushing 1/8 th turn and resize the case. Try the test bullet to see if it can be slipped into the case easily but needs enough force so that it will not slip. This is a judgement call, too loose and the bullet may stick in the lands and pull out of the case, too tight and you might indent the copper jacket when you close the bolt. Keep increasing the amount of neck you are sizing until you feel comfortable that it is tight but not too tight

Since I set my sizing dies to the GO gage length that I used to install the barrel it was no surprise that when I did this last week on a new barrel the Hornady gage and the home made gage both came out with the same answer

edit - The Hornady modified gage is SAMMI speced as are your new unfired cases so just go by the Hornady to break in the rifle. Then you will have some fored cases. Barrels take a few rounds to settle out anyway in my experience, which admittedly is limited

When I have used a similar(Hornady) comparator, I sacrifice a fired(worn out) and sized(no bushing) case by polishing the od with a drill and a piece of sandpaper to where it drops into the chamber freely.

Whatever method you use, as long as it's consistent...I don't see the problem or that one is superior to the other.

Hell, this is a comparative measurement, intended for use in YOUR barrel. Reamers carry about .005" length tolerance....and we're talking about seating depth from one user to another here???...so we can compare "notes"??

 

[jepp2]

This works for me.

 

[savageshooter86]

Wheeler method for me. Very easy and repeatable. With custom action. My Savage I use the Hornady tool and modified case. I like the wheeler method best

 

[Texas10]

I simply don't have the coin to buy custom actions, so I had to make do and come up with a way that worked reliably with my Savage actions. But the Hornaday tool just wasn't reliable and repeatable for me.
BTW: if you do a search for "distance to lands" you'll find about a weeks worth of reading on the subject on this site.

That said, I drill and tap the flash hole of my FF brass to fit a section of cleaning rod, seat a bullet, screw it on the rod and give it a firm push into the chamber. If it sticks upon withdrawal, the bullet is in the lands. Repeat while gradually working in until you find a no-stick seating depth. Gotta have a clean barrel to start with, especially the throat area but this method works very well in my Savage actions. I have one such bullet and case for each bullet I load for. That way, at any time I can check throat erosion accurately, or compare a new lot of bullets to the old lot.

Distance to lands is just a convenient starting point until you are at the point of chasing lands. Then it becomes important to have a good, repeatable method of measurement. YMMV.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I find the slit neck method very reliable, repeatable and fast.
I found the thinnest possible slit (.040”/1mm) is best and perfectly indexed to be the best method.
Unsure what the Wheeler method is.

Cheers.

 

[Bc'z]

I apply a lil preasure to one side of fired case mouth to create a lil bullet hold.
Take a sharpie and color bearing surface of bullet. Chamber n measure repeatedly, measuring to where sharpie is wype off.
This gives me what I believe is my hard jam.
I then seat my loaded rounds -.015 -.02 deeper to start.
Crude n rudimentary but it works.