Bergers' online load manual

[4xforfun]

Has anyone ever looked at Bergers' online loading manual? I was just looking at their data for my 338 Edge. First thought..."WOW...ULTRA CONSERVATIVE" !! 84.5 is listed as max load with the 300 grain Bergers and H1000. The common practice two years ago was "start at around 88 and work up. Most will end up at 90 - 92 grains". This info was spot on!!! I load for 2...one ended up at 92 and the other at 91.

Also, on their load densities. It shows an H1000 load of 84.5 grains as being 103%!! I ran my Edge ...with new brass...... up to 94 grains, and still had lots of room in the case. Both Rem and Bertrom brass were used.

This data just dosen't seem to jive...in any way, with the real world. Or, am I reading it wrong?

 

[alf]

They've always been a bit short I think.

I went to 96 of H-1000 with 300's in my 338/300 Ultra. Moly, of course.

 

[amlevin]

When I use Berger's load data at first it appears that it's a little conservative. In practice, at least in my rifles, the data appears to be more focused on accuracy than how fast one can drive the bullet.

 

[4xforfun]

When I use Berger's load data at first it appears that it's a little conservative. In practice, at least in my rifles, the data appears to be more focused on accuracy than how fast one can drive the bullet.

Well then they still missed the mark!!!

 

[CPorter]

Are you using the same OAL as Berger?

 

[granite1]

Yeah, check their OAL versus yours. I noticed quite a difference with their .223rem loads compared to what I am use to.

 

[4xforfun]

OAL and case capacity have NOTHING to do with each other.

And differing OAL wouldn't make 10 grains difference.

 

[dkhunt14]

OAL has a lot to do with pressure. If the throat is short the bullet uses up capacity. I have seen WSM and Dashers throated out and the loads went up two grains with no pressure. I have seen the same guns go up 100 FPS with the powder increase and lower pressure. Matt

 

[barefooter56]

4xforfun,
All our loads are based on MAGAZINE LENGTH ammunition. The length of our bullets v the powder column at these seating depths is what has made these charges so conservative. Go to the INFORMATION tab on our main page and find Bryan's articles on "Affescts of COAL and CBTO ( cartridge base to ogive). This is a 2 part article and can be found under the "EXTERNAL BALLISTICS" tab of the Berger Blog square on the lower right side of the page. If you have any questions please feel free to either contact us here or at techsupport@bergerbullets.com

 

[paulT]

Does Bergers online manual list loads for 30-32 inch barrels for .308 win with 215G hybrids with varget or H4350/re 17.

 

[barefooter56]

paulT,
RE-17 & 215 grain Berger in a .308 Winchester
Starting load- 38.0 grain
Max - 42.3 grain
APPROX velocity's- 2184 to 2431 fps
APPROX fill ratio = 104%
This is based on MAGAZINE LENGTH seating depth and 24 in barrel.
Contact us at techsupport@bergerbullets.com to see if we can help you with the H4350.
Take care!

 

[paulT]

paulT,
RE-17 & 215 grain Berger in a .308 Winchester
Starting load- 38.0 grain
Max - 42.3 grain
APPROX velocity's- 2184 to 2431 fps
APPROX fill ratio = 104%
This is based on MAGAZINE LENGTH seating depth and 24 in barrel.
Contact us at techsupport@bergerbullets.com to see if we can help you with the H4350.
Take care!

Thanks for Info Barefooter56.

 

[4xforfun]

OAL has a lot to do with pressure. If the throat is short the bullet uses up capacity. I have seen WSM and Dashers throated out and the loads went up two grains with no pressure. I have seen the same guns go up 100 FPS with the powder increase and lower pressure. Matt

Nobody is talking PSI here. Obviously jamming a bullet into the boiler room will raise PSI. But again...a given case will hold a given amount of a given powder...period. Why would anyone take into account the space the bullet takes up when there are a million different variables.....combinations of bullet weights/shapes/throats/etc... That would make no sense, and I can't imagine that any bullet/brass/powder/ manufacturer takes the space a bullet takes up to get to their numbers.

Sorry about the delay...I have spent the last 8 days golfing my a$$ of in AZ!!!

Tod

 

[CharlieNC]

4X if you run Quickload, it does calculate the effect that bullet type (dimensions) and seating depth have upon diminishing case capacity. The measured water capacity is based upon filling to the top of the neck but as you know this space is not available for powder. Since the Berger bullets are relatively long, and their stated data is based on magazine length (short), quite a bit of case capacity is lost. Thus higher pressure and velocity for the same powder (until actually jambing the bullet).

 

[4xforfun]

4X if you run Quickload, it does calculate the effect that bullet type (dimensions) and seating depth have upon diminishing case capacity. The measured water capacity is based upon filling to the top of the neck but as you know this space is not available for powder. Since the Berger bullets are relatively long, and their stated data is based on magazine length (short), quite a bit of case capacity is lost. Thus higher pressure and velocity for the same powder (until actually jambing the bullet).

OK..fine. But I'll bet that I can push a 300 grain Berger all the way into the case of either of our Edge brass and STILL fit 84 grains of H1000!!