AndyA
Gold $$ Contributor
ive killed a ton of different critters with bart’s 68gr ultra hunting bullets. And the hammer hunting bullets are good too. That was easy
Do you mean Barts Hammer bullets or Hammer solid copper turned bullets?
Berger VLDH penetration.
- Thread starter Kramerica
- Start date
Do you mean Barts Hammer bullets or Hammer solid copper turned bullets?
I had a .260 that I built as my end all, be all hunting rifle, for the ages. Beautiful AAA Walnut, custom action, Kreiger, jewell...all the right stuff. It shot absolutely wonderfully, too...bugholes time after time. But, the load was 130 Berger VLDH over whatever powder, probably h4350. I had the same result as the op, over and over again. Once it stretched its legs a little, over about 300-350 yards and beyond, that bullet was the hammer of thor....pretty much decapitated a doe at about 375 one day...Impressive! But, inside of about 300, it came apart too fast and wouldn't pass through. I know there is a contingency that calls that "perfect" but I'm not one of them. Sometimes a well hit deer just runs. I want a good blood trail, period..and that bullet at the 260 speeds just didn't or wouldn't do it. I planted a doe at about 65 yards with it one day. Saw her hit the ground like a ton of bricks, from my blind. I lit a smoke and prepared to go load her up. Got over there...no deer and no significant blood. Tried tracking...no luck.
Fast forward a bit...I sold that gun and put together a pretty plain jane 700 in 280 AI. It shoots very well with the 168 VLDH and I've never had it fail to pass through..and the exit wound is always impressive. More importantly, I've never lost a deer to it yet. There is no magic bullet for all game and speeds but the 7mm 168 vldh is as close to perfect as I've ever seen. My all time favorite hunting rifle.
My two longest deer kills were with these two rifles. Both DRT. The 260 was at 560 and the 280 was at 550 yards. Again, once the 260 slowed down a bit, the berger 130 was awesome. The 280 AI is just awesome everywhere.
Fast forward a bit...I sold that gun and put together a pretty plain jane 700 in 280 AI. It shoots very well with the 168 VLDH and I've never had it fail to pass through..and the exit wound is always impressive. More importantly, I've never lost a deer to it yet. There is no magic bullet for all game and speeds but the 7mm 168 vldh is as close to perfect as I've ever seen. My all time favorite hunting rifle.
My two longest deer kills were with these two rifles. Both DRT. The 260 was at 560 and the 280 was at 550 yards. Again, once the 260 slowed down a bit, the berger 130 was awesome. The 280 AI is just awesome everywhere.
When Berger developed the HVLD.
It’s the other way around; Berger Target bullets got used for hunting, and people found out quickly that their thin jackets gave devastating expansion (as in, a hand grenade) and killed light lightning. Don’t expect to see the “classic mushroom” performance many want from a hunting bullet, they won’t do that. They fragment violently, sending secondary misses throughout the body cavity with a well-placed shot. The problem came in when shooters. Using these same bullets in long strings of fire began seeing bullet breakup, in flight from time to time. Berger went back and analyzed the problem, and wound up increasing the jacket thickness to preclude this issue. The new Target designs are in most cases exactly the same as the original bullets, with the exception of having a slightly thicker jacket. The original bullets remained in the line, completely unchanged, but now labeled as Hunting bullets.
Lots of issues involved here, but the bullet blow-up problems come down to heat transfer through the jacket; a molten boundary layer of lead between core and jacket, and weak points in the jacket caused by sharp edges (roughness of an eroded throat, a new barrel that still has some sharp edges on the rifling and so on) and the rotational velocity needed for stabilization. Not a constant problem, more like a hit or miss (no pun intended) thing that had to be corrected. The thicker jackets for the Target design solved this issue, and most folks seem happy with the current state of affairs.
This is, incidentally, exactly the opposite of most other bullet makers, such as Sierra, where their SMK line has notable thinner jackets than their traditional hunting designs like the Pro-Hunter and GameKing bullets.
Last edited:
centerlineseal
Gold $$ Contributor
I'm encouraged by this, ... as I'm currently working up a load for elk with this bullet in my 1970s era BDL in 7mm Remmag. Accuracy potential is outstanding so far.
I've been thoroughly impressed with that bullet on deer. Most of the loads I've used are running just under 3,000fps, so I think it'll hold up in your 7 Mag too. I've never shot an elk so I can't say for sure but I'd be surprised if it doesn't perform very well.
Alf... good shot... did it run or drop?
alf
Silver $$ Contributor
Still ran a bit, but I knew he wasn't going far.
I should've added, YMMV to my post. It's always that way on these type threads. I just wasn't satisfied, too many times, with that bullet. Deer amaze me, how they can run with a perfect cannon shot at one time, then fall drt with a less than perfectly placed shot from a 223 or similar. If I'm getting consistent exit wounds from a cartridge with plenty of energy, I'm generally happy with that.
+1 to that ^^^
I can attest that the Berger’s kill extremely well, used them on elk, bear and antelope from 157 to over 1,000 yards on game. They are deadly. My favorite hunting bullet in my .300 Win Mag for sure
nmkid
Silver $$ Contributor
Back in the early 1950's, things were tough and dad used to go out every so often and shoot a doe for meat. He used a .22. One shot in the head and down they went. I used to think his .22 was the most powerful rifle in the world!
xswanted
Gold $$ Contributor
I would think it all depends on the impact velocity.
I shot a deer with the 140s at 530 yards a few years back. It exited about the size of a baseball.
Using the same setup on another deer at under 200 yards and the bullet stayed inside.
Bothe died within feet of where they were hit but attribute the difference to impact velocity.
Same thing happened with the 115 from a 25-06 at similar distances.
I shot a deer with the 140s at 530 yards a few years back. It exited about the size of a baseball.
Using the same setup on another deer at under 200 yards and the bullet stayed inside.
Bothe died within feet of where they were hit but attribute the difference to impact velocity.
Same thing happened with the 115 from a 25-06 at similar distances.
Whether you get an exit with a Berger hunting VLD depends upon distance of shot, what grain weight the bullet is, velocity, and shot angle.
Over 300 yards I usually get an exit. On slower velocity rounds such as .308 and my 6.5x47 I usually get exits. I rarely get exits using the 105’s in fast 6mm’s.
Over 300 yards I usually get an exit. On slower velocity rounds such as .308 and my 6.5x47 I usually get exits. I rarely get exits using the 105’s in fast 6mm’s.
The 68 gr. Ultra will kill whitetails very efficiently …. even in the diminutive 6 PPC. Here is my grandson with a 1-shot kill at 75 yards.ive killed a ton of different critters with bart’s 68gr ultra hunting bullets. And the hammer hunting bullets are good too. That was easy
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.