Berger VLD Target vs. Hunting bullet?

[903sc]

First of all, Hello! I am new to this forum. I have a once in a lifetime opportunity to hunt elk in Colorado this fall. After researching several bullets, I decided to use the Berger VLD for my .308Win. I ordered a box of these bullets so I can begin working up an accurate load and they arrived today. However, it says on the top "Not Suitable for Hunting". I then realized that I ordered the "Target VLD" instead of the "Hunting VLD".

I contacted the supplier that I purchased the bullets from and he said the only difference is the jacket thickness and that the Target bullet will work fine for elk but will penetrate deeper before fragmenting. My concern, though, is that the .308 is a slower velocity to begin with (compared to other .30 caliber rifles) and I don't know that this bullet will expand/fragment as needed at a longer range or slower velocity shot. What are your experiences or suggestions for this?

(Also, if these won't work properly for this application, I have an unopened box of .30cal 168grn Berger Target VLD bullets if anyone would like to trade for a box of Hunting VLD bullets)

 

[limbic]

Fragmentation shouldn't be a issue with a slow moving unbonded bullet. The target bullets are a bit thicker in the jacket. Probably a good idea for shooting that huge 6x6 I hope you get a shot at. I would work up a load and roll out!

 

[903sc]

How would these perform on smaller game then? What I don't use elk hunting will be used mostly for whitetail deer in kansas as well as the occasional coyote.

 

[40X Guy]

I have shot both the Berger hunting and target VLD's in my .308 Brux barreled 24 inch 700 Rem. action rifle. But I decided to shoot 155 weight Berger's over the Palma load of 4064. The hunting bullets are actually more accurate in my particular rifle. Make sure you have a good optic along with a good load and send it into the elks boiler room. You will have no issues. Best of luck to you on your upcoming hunt!

 

[RonAKA]

I suspect a box of bullets is a small cost compared to a once in a lifetime elk hunt. I would not compromise on the bullet. My choice in the 308 would be the 150 or 165 Nosler Partition. A second choice would be the Swift A-Frame 165. My gut feel is that the Nosler are likely to open up more in a lower velocity 30 caliber like the 308.

http://www.nosler.com/Bullets/Partition.aspx

http://www.swiftbullets.com/aframe_intro

The advantage of a partitioned bullet is that it is very velocity insensitive. They make the front part jacket quite thin, so it opens up over a wide range of velocities. The back part is almost never going to be lost, so you always have good penetration, even through bone.

 

[FURMAN]

Most boxes of Berger bullets Say something like recommended for hunting great for targets on the "hunting bullets" and recommended for targets great for hunting on the "targets" box. I would call Berger on your particular bullet just to be sure.

 

[EricStecker]

RonAKA,

I am guessing that you have never tried the Berger Hunting VLD on game. You should try some on your next hunt. You will find out why they have become so incredibly popular. Only proven results in the field rather than marketing hype can account for their success. They are the real deal.

903sc,

I can confirm that the difference between our Hunting and Target bullets is the thickness of the jacket. The Target bullets are built to withstand the more abusive conditions realized during competition shooting. These include high shot counts, rapid firing strings, extended exposure to direct sunlight, long barrels and higher than typical velocities. Can they kill game? Of course but so can a 22 long rifle if you put it is precisely the right spot. It is best to stick with the bullets recommended application.

Our Hunting bullets have been proven in the field again and again by thousands of hunters taking everything from antelop to grizzly bear at close and long range. It is as close as bullets get to being "all purpose" (No bullet is totally all purpose). This is because it works as good as the best hunting bullets at short range and better than any brand at long range.

You can trust that our Hunting VLD bullets will get the job done. We will be happy to exchange the Target bullets you have for Hunting bullets. If you want to do this please send an email to teresa.collins@bergerbullets.com. She will arrange the exchange.

Regards,
Eric

 

[wapiti25]

I feel you should get the hunting bullet. Use your target bullets for practice, shooting off stix or backpack.

 

[distinguished]

Excellent post by Eric Stecker. If you have a preference for the hunting bullet, take him up on the offer to exchange. The bottom line is shot placement.

 

[FURMAN]

Thanks Eric.

 

[903sc]

Thank you Eric. I will contact Teresa.

 

[TheSnake]

903sc,
I have used Berger VLD hunting bullets to shoot deer and coyote at short and long range with excellent results. I am confident that after you try them, you will be pleased with how well they perform.

 

[deadlyswift]

I have never tried a match bullet for hunting. Only due to all the hype that I have always read about not using match bullets for hunting.

This year I will be hunting a new lease. So we will be cleaning out a lot of the doe's to get the doe/buck ratio down to where it needs to be. I think I'll try some of the berger bullets on some doe's, and see for myself how they perform.

I do agree with (RonAKA) on Nosler bullets. I have used the partition bullet for years it's a great hunting bullet. I also really like the Accubond bullet by Nosler. Anybody can argue witch bullet works better than others etc. To me on any game no matter how big or small, If you take out both of the animal's lungs it's not going far. Take anythings ablity to get oxygen, and it is going to go down quick. I have even shot whitetails with my bow and double lunged them, and they went down quicker than a heart shot from a 270wsm 140gr accubond.

Good info tho guys. Looking forward to trying the berger's out this year! ;D

 

[RonAKA]

RonAKA,

I am guessing that you have never tried the Berger Hunting VLD on game. You should try some on your next hunt. You will find out why they have become so incredibly popular. Only proven results in the field rather than marketing hype can account for their success. They are the real deal.

Regards,
Eric

Eric, you are correct. I have never used the Berger Hunting VLD. I have some 69 and 80 grain 6mm Berger Varmint Match bullets which I will be trying soon on paper. As a retired Mechanical Engineer, I like fool proof simplicity. To my way of thinking the partitioned bullet is an excellent example of that way of thinking. It is a very easy design task to make the front part of the bullet open up over a wide range of velocities, and at the same time you virtually guarantee the back part stays totally intact. So expansion is sure, and penetration is guaranteed. So I don't think marketing hype when I see a Nosler. Now on the other hand there is another "B" word (not Berger) making bullets that I would agree has a lot more hype than design.

I'm sure there are disadvantages too of the partion design, and cost to manufacture is certainly one of them. Could be accuracy hits as well, as often when complexity of manufacture goes up, quality control goes down. But, in big game hunting, absolute perfect accuracy is not at the top of the list for requirements. Most time shots are taken standing with no rest. Obviously the guy standing is the most inaccurate chain in the link, and tends to overwhelm any of the other fine points.

And last, I've used Nosler Partitions for about 40 years with good success, so I'm probably too old to change!!

 

[M700]

Ron, with you, I'm a long-term user of the Nosler Partition, and still believe strongly in that bullet. Used one to take this 6x6 Wyoming bull:

However I was intrigued when I started hearing about the Berger VLD's as hunting bullets a couple of years ago. Decided to try them for myself. Since then my little .25-06 with the 115 Bergers has been used to take three mule deer, from 175 - 400 yards, and those bullets made quick kills, with the excellent accuracy one might well expect from a Berger bullet. Here's my 2008 Washington public-land mulie, which Erik & friends at Berger were nice enough to include in a recent Berger Bullets brochure:

The Nosler Partitions are a known quantity, and work great. The Berger VLD's work differently, but also produce quick kills. I've only taken mule deer with them, but have friends who use them on elk, and even moose, with good success.

Regards, Guy

 

[EricStecker]

RonAKA,

There is no question that the Nosler Partition bullet is one of the best hunting bullets made. In my post I mentioned that the Berger Hunting VLD works as well as the best hunting bullets at short range. When I say "best" I am referring to the Partition and a few other of Nosler's offerings. I believe they do hunting bullets better than any of the other brands (except ours of course)

Frankly, I am proud of the fact that our bullet is considered to be in the same class (in terms of effectiveness) as the Partition. I do not consider our bullet to be clearly superior to theirs for short range game hunting. But hunters are learning that there are differences which make our bullet a more favorable option.

The first is accuracy. The partition was a revolutionary design when introduced for hunting but the nature of its construction makes it a real challenge to produce precision. Admittedly, 1 MOA (which they are typically easily capable of) is plenty good for a hunter at short range so this is mostly a non-issue but precision capability really makes a difference at longer ranges. A hunter who uses a Partition may have to pass up a shot at slightly extended range where those using Bergers have the advantage of tighter precision which extends their lethal range.

Another key difference is what happens upon impact. The Nosler does a great job however due to how our bullet performs on impact, kills are faster as a result of the increased internal damage our bullet produces. I understand that dead is dead but to some hunters more frequent occurrences of "bang flops" is appealing.

Lastly, you have the cost. Our bullets are as effective at short range, more effective at long range at just over half the cost of the Partition. I did a quick check on Sinclair's website and found the 30 cal 180 gr Partition selling for $36.40 for 50 bullets ($0.72 each) and the 30 cal 185 gr Berger selling for $46.10 for 100 ($0.46 each). This is understandable given the challenges of producing the Partition but it favors the Berger since the performance is no worse.

Having said all this, if we did not make the hunting bullet we produce now I would use the Nosler too.

Regards,
Eric

 

[cooper_m22]

I believe Eric is spot-on in regard to his last post. I have used both Partitions and Berger VLDs on various size game from ranges of 50 yards to 350 yards. Both bullets have generated quick kills in every instance, but I have had more "bang, flops" with the Bergers. I have also found the Berger Hunting VLDs to be significantly more accurate which increases my confidence on tougher shots. Cost is not a big issue for me when deciding on a hunting bullet, but the fact that Berger VLDs cost much less than Partitions is an added bonus. I find I am inclined to use them more in practice at the range than the more expensive Partitions.

 

[RonAKA]

Eric, thank you for your response. You are to be commended for your diligence in responding to posts about Berger products in this forum. Many in your position would not bother. I always find your information very helpful.

 

[TheSnake]

I think there is a new class of hunter out there today. With the equipment available out there, you can have a superbly accurate hunting rifle that was not available to the average Joe a few short years ago. This type of equipment in the hands of a skilled shooter can cleanly take big game at distances of 700 to 1000 yards or more. This is where the Berger VLD Hunting bullets come in. I watch several hunting shows regularly on The Outdoor Channel and "The Best of the West" is one of them. They specialize in long range hunting and use Berger bullets exclusively. I have seen them take most all North American big game at extreme ranges and most game doesn't travel far if they travel at all before they drop.

Yes most of my shots at deer size game is at 300 years or less, but when I am in South Texas and can see 1500 yards in several directions and that mega buck steps out at 700 yards, I am glad I have a high BC Precision Berger bullet headed out the barrel that I can count on hitting the spot (as long as I do my part). Lucky for me they also perform at short ranges.

Did I mention I like Berger Bullets? ;D

No I don't think these long ranges are for everybody so I am not looking for a fight with this post.

 

[RonAKA]

"With the equipment available out there, you can have a superbly accurate hunting rifle that was not available to the average Joe a few short years ago. This type of equipment in the hands of a skilled shooter can cleanly take big game at distances of 700 to 1000 yards or more."
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I'm old but not senile, at least not yet. Tell that story to someone much younger than I am, who just might believe you.