Berger bullets vs Lapua bullets
- Thread starter TQB
- Start date
Jager
Gold $$ Contributor
If I could use only one factory bullet brand for everything... it would be Berger, hands down. But much of that is simply due to popularity/availability here in the States. I think Lapua is every bit as good and my limited experience with them has been entirely positive.
At the end of the day, your rifle/barrel will tell you what it likes.
At the end of the day, your rifle/barrel will tell you what it likes.
Berger is a much more proactive company in design terms. Just look at how many new models they've introduced over the last ten years alone in both Target and Hunting product ranges. They've forced other, more conservative competitors to up their game or lose business. With Bryan Litz designing its bullets, Berger's philosophy is lowest possible drag subject to retaining ease of use / tolerance of factors like seating depths. This has produced some outstanding, once in a generation designs like the 30-cal 155.5 Fullbore, 185 BT 'Juggernaut', and now it appears the 200.20X (which I've no personal experience of, just look at others winning FTR matches with it). The 'Hybrid' ogive-form concept was a huge leap forward in design terms and it's no surprise it was Berger who came up with it. The company appears to often 'fine-tune' its designs too after new introductions, so an initially good product becomes even better in some cases.
Design wise, Lapua is very conservative and the company rarely introduces new models at least in the match bullet field. If you look at its Scenar ranges (by 'look', I mean using the data from Bryan Litz's Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets books), you'll see most models are higher drag / lower BC than Berger equivalents. Perfectly good designs, but many are ballistically at the low performing end of what's on offer now across the first tier of match bullet makers. There is a tendency to have one very good performer that carries on in the product line-up forever, and everything else is 'unexciting'. In the 30s, it's the antediluvian 155gn Scenar; 6mm the long-established 105gn VLD; 6.5mm the even older 139gn Scenar and the newer but still long in the tooth 123gn Scenar. Unlike Hornady, Nosler, Berger, and Sierra, Lapua doesn't produce a single heavy 224 match bullet for long freebore chambers, ie heavier than the blunt relatively high drag 77gn model designed for magazine operation in ARs.
What Lapua appears to concentrate on having produced workmanlike designs is making them really, really consistently. They were good before the upgraded 'L' variants appeared; they are now at least as good as competitors' products, usually better as best I can tell. They are also superbly consistent over time. Buy a 6.5mm 123gn Scenar this week and it'll measure same as your last purchase, and probably same as the contents of any 10-year old boxes in your cupboard, whilst the recent (meplat 'pointed') Sierra MK is a quite different bullet from that of four or five years ago, only Sierra hasn't told the users they likely need to revisit their seater die settings. Berger too tends to change some models over time, maybe as a result of their 'fine-tuning' efforts. I've just managed to get hold of 500 200gn 308 Hybrids and their BTO values run a tad over 20-thou' different from my previous examples which I used to work the load up, leaving me wondering if I need to revisit COAL settings.
Design wise, Lapua is very conservative and the company rarely introduces new models at least in the match bullet field. If you look at its Scenar ranges (by 'look', I mean using the data from Bryan Litz's Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets books), you'll see most models are higher drag / lower BC than Berger equivalents. Perfectly good designs, but many are ballistically at the low performing end of what's on offer now across the first tier of match bullet makers. There is a tendency to have one very good performer that carries on in the product line-up forever, and everything else is 'unexciting'. In the 30s, it's the antediluvian 155gn Scenar; 6mm the long-established 105gn VLD; 6.5mm the even older 139gn Scenar and the newer but still long in the tooth 123gn Scenar. Unlike Hornady, Nosler, Berger, and Sierra, Lapua doesn't produce a single heavy 224 match bullet for long freebore chambers, ie heavier than the blunt relatively high drag 77gn model designed for magazine operation in ARs.
What Lapua appears to concentrate on having produced workmanlike designs is making them really, really consistently. They were good before the upgraded 'L' variants appeared; they are now at least as good as competitors' products, usually better as best I can tell. They are also superbly consistent over time. Buy a 6.5mm 123gn Scenar this week and it'll measure same as your last purchase, and probably same as the contents of any 10-year old boxes in your cupboard, whilst the recent (meplat 'pointed') Sierra MK is a quite different bullet from that of four or five years ago, only Sierra hasn't told the users they likely need to revisit their seater die settings. Berger too tends to change some models over time, maybe as a result of their 'fine-tuning' efforts. I've just managed to get hold of 500 200gn 308 Hybrids and their BTO values run a tad over 20-thou' different from my previous examples which I used to work the load up, leaving me wondering if I need to revisit COAL settings.
Liven The Dream
Gold $$ Contributor
I would say Target Shooting Burger has the upper Hand.
Back about 15 years ago I got my hands on 3000 Lapua Silver (Moly) 155gr. .308 Palma Bullets and Shot Some Fine Scores .
Then those Burger and Sierra Guys upped there game.
I think ! The US Army 300M Shooters Get Laupa 6 BR 105gr. Factory Ammo ? I got a lot of there Brass Years ago ?
I shot my First NRA Match some place in NY Paper Patch as I remember !!!
Good Luck.
Don
Back about 15 years ago I got my hands on 3000 Lapua Silver (Moly) 155gr. .308 Palma Bullets and Shot Some Fine Scores .
Then those Burger and Sierra Guys upped there game.
I think ! The US Army 300M Shooters Get Laupa 6 BR 105gr. Factory Ammo ? I got a lot of there Brass Years ago ?
I shot my First NRA Match some place in NY Paper Patch as I remember !!!
Good Luck.
Don
watercam
Silver $$ Contributor
I have shot Sierra, Berger, and Lapua in .308 Palma loads for some time now. Honestly? They all shot well with a sling. Obviously better with a rest. Even the older 2155 Sierra's shoot lights out at 1K and the Brits shoot them extremely well past that.
Personally I would let my pocket book dictate my preference among those three brands.
Personally I would let my pocket book dictate my preference among those three brands.
I do not have any Lapua bullets which compare in design to Berger's hybrid ogive.
A better comparison to the Lapuas that I shoot, Scenars, are Sierra Match King. In that, they are both great and I would not hesitate to shoot either of them.
When I shot a 338 LM, I had 300gr OTMs, 300gr Scenars, and 250gr Scenars. Out to 800, there was little difference between the two 300gr bullets. Advantage went to the Scenar because I did not have to worry about available magazine length limiting cartridge OAL.
A better comparison to the Lapuas that I shoot, Scenars, are Sierra Match King. In that, they are both great and I would not hesitate to shoot either of them.
When I shot a 338 LM, I had 300gr OTMs, 300gr Scenars, and 250gr Scenars. Out to 800, there was little difference between the two 300gr bullets. Advantage went to the Scenar because I did not have to worry about available magazine length limiting cartridge OAL.
I have only tried Lapua bullets in 6.5 cal. but from the accuracy I ve seen so far Id have to say they rank well with Berger and Sierra. Sub half inch and even quarter inch groups have been the norm for me in custom barrels chambered by ODCR (WSMNUT) here on the site.
I have shot both Lapua 167g Scenars and 175g SMK's in my .308. The Scenars perform a little better at 300 yards than the SMK'S do for me. If you are going strictly off of BC #'s, the Hornady A-Tips are leaps and bounds higher in that weight range than Berger, Lapua or SMK's. Haven't shot the A-Tips yet to compare but I would expect them to be a contender as well....
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
Nammo group controls Berger and Lapua.
I should also have added the 284 180gn Scenar to the potentially outstanding list. It seems a bit picky on barrel dimensions - I have a 'straight 284' with a Bartlein gain twist in which its performance isn't anything special, but had a Shehane with a 9-twist Benchmark that really shot this bullet well. Together they gave me my best ever result in 1,000 yard GB F-Class Association matches, a silver missing top place by a single 'V'. Paul Hill, one of the UK's top F competitors is a great fan of this bullet and they've performed very well for him.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=Paul+Hill&submit=Search
I've also had superb groups from its 150gn little brother in a 7mm-08 F-Class rifle in prepped Winchester brass and over Lovex SO65 (Shooters World 'SW Long Rifle' in the US. It's a short-range low-BC design, but superbly made and very consistent from lot to lot. I used to use it in 300 F-Class matches with great success, but it's too wind affected for today's conditions as we have top shooters using the 284 and WSMs/SAUMs in our 300 yard club matches!
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=Paul+Hill&submit=Search
I've also had superb groups from its 150gn little brother in a 7mm-08 F-Class rifle in prepped Winchester brass and over Lovex SO65 (Shooters World 'SW Long Rifle' in the US. It's a short-range low-BC design, but superbly made and very consistent from lot to lot. I used to use it in 300 F-Class matches with great success, but it's too wind affected for today's conditions as we have top shooters using the 284 and WSMs/SAUMs in our 300 yard club matches!
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