Berger Bullets updates BC's on all bullets

[Bryan Litz Ballistics]

Producing highly accurate and properly referenced (G7) BC's based on live fire is a very serious effort at Berger Bullets. We're very proud to release this updated performance data on our entire line of match grade bullets. Previous BC's were established by live fire measurement of (usually) a single lot. This produced accurate BC's, but we can do better! The Performance data provided in this update is based on the running average of subsequent lots tested over the past several years. Our confidence in the accuracy of the updated BC's is higher than ever.

Other new information we're pushing in this update includes minimum and optimal twist rate suggestions for all bullets. Click here to read more: http://www.bergerbullets.com/the-state-of-the-art-in-rifle-bullet-stability/

Finally, G7 form factors are provided for all long range bullets as well. The G7 form factor is a measure of the bullets drag, independent of it's weight and caliber. Form factor is used as a measure of aerodynamic efficiency. Click here to read more about form factors: http://www.bergerbullets.com/form-factors-a-useful-analysis-tool/

Read the full story and see all the newly updated BC's here: http://www.bergerbullets.com/update-of-berger-bullets-performance-data/

-Bryan

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Love your dedication to producing accurate long range bullets and making sure the shooters have all the info they need. Second to none. Thanks so much.

 

[STOMP442]

Bryan one quick question. I have noticed that the hunting VLD bullets and the Target VLD bullets are now listing different BC's. Other than thicker jackets I was under the impression these bullets were made to the same specifications and dimensions. Why is there a difference in BC now and what caused it? Looking at the 6.5 140's and the 6mm 105s specifically.

 

[Bryan Litz Ballistics]

Thanks for your comment Ledd Slinger

STOMP,
The thick and thin jacket (Target and Hunting) versions of a bullet are made using the same shape BT and ogive dies. This is why we've always cited their dimensions as 'equal'. Although they are very close to being equal, there are subtle differences in the lengths and other dimensions which manifest as differences in BC. The updated quick reference sheet (http://www.bergerbullets.com/pdf/Quick-Reference-Sheets.pdf ) lists the dimensions of each bullet. These dimensions, like the updated BC's, are running averages of recent production lots, and reflect the actual dimensions and performance of each individual bullet as opposed to representing both with the same numbers.

In the case of the 6mm 105 VLD, there's a greater than average difference between the Hunting and Target versions. The reason is the thick jacket Target version of the bullet won't eject from the ogive forming die with the smaller knock out pin, and so a larger knock out pin is used for that bullet. This results in the thick jacket bullet having a larger meplat (tip) than the hunting version, and a lower BC. You can read more details in this article that was published back in 2010 when the change took place: http://www.bergerbullets.com/change-to-6mm-105-grain-vld-target-bullet/ Note the exact numbers have been updated since that article was written, but the explanation is accurate.

In most cases the thin and thick jacket VLD's use the same knock out pin and the difference between their BC's are not as great. Unfortunately the 6mm 105 suffered a hit on the target version due to the larger knock out pin being required.

-Bryan

 

[STOMP442]

I see, thank you for the explanation.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I see you dropped the G7 BC on the .224 90 VLD by 3%. That's just wrong. What's next? Are you going to be stealing little kids' Trick-or-Treat candy on Halloween next weekend? ;D


BTW - any idea when the next run of 90 VLDs is coming up?

My favorite hunting bullet dropped 2% (6.5mm 140gr VLD)

The truth hurts sometimes. Lol

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I see you dropped the G7 BC on the .224 90 VLD by 3%. That's just wrong. What's next? Are you going to be stealing little kids' Trick-or-Treat candy on Halloween next weekend? ;D


BTW - any idea when the next run of 90 VLDs is coming up?

Kudos to Berger for ongoing work providing accurate BCs. I too noticed that the 90 VLD has slipped 3%, but I'll be happy to have them when they arrive.

I'm not sure what happened with those flat based 6mm bullets with the 8% to 20% downward revisions, but it likely won't effect 100-200 yard benchrest which is their primary use. How much would a 20% increase in wind drift open up a 0.2" group at 200 yards?

 

[whatwind?]

Can you point the bullets and perform the same test and form factors and bc?

 

[raptor1ronin]

I see you dropped the G7 BC on the .224 90 VLD by 3%. That's just wrong. What's next? Are you going to be stealing little kids' Trick-or-Treat candy on Halloween next weekend? ;D


BTW - any idea when the next run of 90 VLDs is coming up?

Greg,
I had an email in to Berger about that same question, they cam back with a tentative February run. I hope I have enough to get me by.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I see you dropped the G7 BC on the .224 90 VLD by 3%. That's just wrong. What's next? Are you going to be stealing little kids' Trick-or-Treat candy on Halloween next weekend? ;D


BTW - any idea when the next run of 90 VLDs is coming up?

Greg,
I had an email in to Berger about that same question, they cam back with a tentative February run. I hope I have enough to get me by.

This is disappointing. I was really hoping to see what this bullet could do in a new rifle. Bergers have been so easy to load for and get great accuracy over the years, but it looks like the SMK will get the first look this time.

 

[dmoran]

Wow..... the 3% reduction that some of you are crying about is very minor. Example:

From a muzzle velocity of say 2800-fps and at a target distance of 1000yds, the -3% would only effect the elevation by 1/2-moa, and a wind drift of 10-mph by about 3". And at 600yds, the effects would only equal about 1 or 2 scope clicks to both elevation and windage.

Or about the same effect that 20-fps change in muzzle velocity would account for.

My 2-Cents
Donovan

 

[effendude]

Would you people be more happy with false information that makes you feel better? Then when real world results differ from some ballistic program, you have to fudge something to make the results match.

Hats off to Berger for providing shooters with the most accurate BC values possible.

 

[CaptainMal]

Bryan,

Appreciate the information. Now add some more.

For probably the past 6 months NONE of the major suppliers has seen any 105 Hybrids. I am not the only local shooter down to nothing. Nothing means my 600 and 1,000 yard shooting has virtually stopped as I debate your lack of supply vs the effort to source another brand bullet and tune for two different Dashers.

What's the deal?

From locals I have heard "bad" rumors about Berger because of this. Will you ever supply the 6mm, 105 Hybrids again?

 

[Sheldon N]

Thanks for this update, Bryan.

Will the newly updated data be pushed out into the Ballistics AE app? Am I going to have to re-create all my favorite custom projectiles/loads or will the new data automatically update in the app?

 

[JPeelen]

Guys, what do you prefer ?

A manufacturer that lies at you and lists "would be" ballistic coefficients?

Or a manufacturer that honestly tells you, well we found out that a 3% lower BC is more close to what happens on the range?

Are you really complaining about a manufacturer telling you the truth about his products?

Apart from that, Donovan is quite right in pointing out that 3 percent really is a very, very minor change. Don't be surprised if two institutions measure the same bullet lot and get figures 5 percent apart. A 5 percent difference from firing the same bullet lot from 2 different rifles also would be no surprise. Keep things in perspective.

 

[r bose]

I like the fact that so much effort is put into getting the best data possible for a given bullet.

Now, as far as supply, not knowing when a bullet will be available again or how long a bullet might be unavailable, will only bring on a hoarder mentality and screw up the projectile market just as the powder/primer market.

Can you imagine what will happen when the 90 VLD's or the 105 Hybrids come back again? And when they quickly get bought up, we'll be here wondering when they'll be available again. Hopefully I will be able financially to buy enough to get me thru the next drought.

Wonder if Berger has ever considered posting their production schedule? That might prevent the hoarding of projectiles.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I like the fact that so much effort is put into getting the best data possible for a given bullet.

Now, as far as supply, not knowing when a bullet will be available again or how long a bullet might be unavailable, will only bring on a hoarder mentality and screw up the projectile market just as the powder/primer market.

Can you imagine what will happen when the 90 VLD's or the 105 Hybrids come back again? And when they quickly get bought up, we'll be here wondering when they'll be available again. Hopefully I will be able financially to buy enough to get me thru the next drought.

I gotta agree. I'd prefer not to hoard. I don't mind checking for (minor) changes in the bullet when switching from one lot of bullets to another every 500 rounds or so, but switching back and forth with SMKs is a pain when the Bergers go MIA. This makes it really tempting to hoard and buy 5000 or so of each Berger that sees regular use.

 

[Joe Salt]

Did anyone consider they are coming out with better equipment all the time and this is what Burger is doing, better equipment! If I remember right back in the 70's I could win a 1000 yard match with 19"! Today if you are not shooting ten shots in 4-5'' you're out to lunch. So your BC just went down 3% BOO HOO, Can you shoot good enough to tell the difference, I doubt it. Let your rifle tell you what bullet it likes. I hate it when people through numbers out there that have no Idea if it helps. All I expect from Burger is that they make all the bullets the same. I'll take it from there!

Joe Salt

 

[Ledd Slinger]

You fellas ever heard of sarcasm?. Or do you live to create drama on this site? Im sure most everyone else caught on to the fun nature of our comments...

 

[barefooter56]

CaptainMal,
Looks like sometime in December 2015 is the estimated production schedule for the 6mm 105 HYBRID. What are the "rumors" you have been hearing on this bullet sir?