Berger 73 gr Bullets with CFE223 in .223 load --- questions.

[amlevin]

There doesn't seem to be any information readily available for this combination. I've been using the 75 gr data to start my load workup in a Remington SPS-Tactical, 1:9 twist. With the stock bolt which has Remington's trademark large chamfer on the firing pin hole, I get a false cratering from just about minimum load, all the way to where I've currently stopped at 25.2 gr. The edges of the primers (CCI SRP) still have a pronounced radius and there are no other signs of pressure (ejector marks or heavy bolt lift).

I can get great groups at 23.7 gr but the bullet is so slow I just about use up all elevation adjustment in the scope to get out to 200 yards. The faster speeds at 25.2 gr (2620 avg) does better but the groups still have a lot of "vertical".

Does anyone else have experience with this bullet and CFE223? I have 12# of it and really want to use it rather than use up my Varget that I'm saving for my .308 loads.

I haven't gone the route yet of "just adding .2 gr until the bolt starts to stick" yet. The brass is Lapua Match so I might just end up doing that. Still have room to go in the case.

Even though the barrel is only 20" in length I still think I should be closer to 2800 fps in speed.

Anyone?

 

[ShootDots]

I have not used that bullet with CFE>>BUT I use it extensively in my .223 and my son's 22-250. My .223 LOVES that bullet seated 3K off the lands with 25.4grs of VV N540... It shoots tiny little dots at 200 yards and is screaming out of the barrel at 3025f.p.s. with an e.s. of right at 9f.p.s. CFE is fairly close in burn rate to N540...

 

[ar15topgun]

You need to have you firing pin hole bushed in the bolt and try using a srm primer. This combo)powder,primer,bullet) is used a lot in ar's with no problems. Hodgdon list a max load of 24.3 with a 77gr. smk @2800fps. You should be able to use this if not a little more with the 73.

 

[amlevin]

You need to have you firing pin hole bushed in the bolt and try using a srm primer. This combo)powder,primer,bullet) is used a lot in ar's with no problems. Hodgdon list a max load of 24.3 with a 77gr. smk @2800fps. You should be able to use this if not a little more with the 73.

I can go as high as 25.8 gr according to Hodgdon with a 75 gr bullet.

As for "bushing" the bolt, I don't even bother with that. When I get around to it I'm just going to put in a PTG bolt that's nice and smooth. One that also doesn't rattle around in the action. PTG makes the firing pin holes "Right Sized". Did this with another Remington and it took about 15 minutes to transfer the firing pin assy and fit it in the action. No headspace change required.

 

[jonbearman]

Then order the ptg because untill you solve the firing pin hole problem you headed up a slippery slope.You cant get there from here.I went through that myself and sent it off to gretan and all my problems ended after he did his magic.

 

[amlevin]

My issue isn't with the false cratering. That hasn't been a problem. I am seeing what seems like a total lack of pressure with what is approaching max loads for a 75 gr bullet while mine is only 73 grains. Still lots of radius on the edge of the primer. I'm even seeing smoked case necks after cleaning the neck area of the chamber so there is absolutely no carbon, much less a carbon ring. The cases are unturned Lapua Match.

Just wondering if anyone has actually used this bullet with the CFE223. There isn't any direct information for the combination.

 

[Beau]

Just wondering if anyone has actually used this bullet with the CFE223. There isn't any direct information for the combination.

I doubt it. It's not a very popular bullet in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Ohio1]

Try some 2520 if you have any....works really well in my 9twist savage with heavy bullets!

Steve

 

[Dave L Kiff]

Hope this helps in the future . I had a customer a few months ago call and say that he would like a bolt with a .062 pin hole that had a firing pin length that would allow the pin in cocked position to still be in the pin hole raceway. Well we did and now we have started making all our new Remington .062 bolts with a benchrest style pin assembly like the premium action's with a new fast lock time pin with .400 length on the .062 stem to glide parallel down the .390 length bolt pin hole. A lot of customers tel me The bad thing about sending the Rem factory bolt out to have it reworked , pin hole , extractor , sleeved and ejector relocated , its still a cobbled up factory bolt . The price for a One piece bolt machined and ground this way to what ever O.D. size is the same price as our regular Remington bolts but you either need to purchase our matching pin or turn your pin down to .062 @ .400 long to work . Thanks Dave

 

[amlevin]

A lot of customers tel me The bad thing about sending the Rem factory bolt out to have it reworked , pin hole , extractor , sleeved and ejector relocated , its still a cobbled up factory bolt .

Couldn't agree more. While I'm sure that Greg and others do great work, the idea of having a "plug" rather than solid metal in the bolt face doesn't fit my view of the way it should be done. Why not fix all the other shortcomings on a stock Remington Bolt at the same time.

I have one of your bolts in my Remington 5-R and couldn't be more happy with it's performance. Nice to hav a bolt that doesn't "Rattle" in the action and cycles nice and smooth. I still have the factory style firing pin but the false cratering is reduced to the point I can now believe what I see on a fired primer.

 

[amlevin]

Just wondering if anyone has actually used this bullet with the CFE223. There isn't any direct information for the combination.

I doubt it. It's not a very popular bullet in the grand scheme of things.

Probably not for those that have 1:8 or faster barrels and can use the 77 gr or heavier bullets. I'm stuck for now with a 1:9 bbl.

 

[Beau]

Plenty of data on Sierra 69s. ;D

 

[amlevin]

Plenty of data on Sierra 69s. ;D

Now if only there were just plenty of Sierra 69's.

 

[Roarke]

Exactly how slow do you think those 73's are going? I find it hard to believe they're moving anything less than 2700fps. At that speed, or anywhere near it, you MIGHT be dropping 1.5-2.5 inches between 100 and 200 yards. Your scope related issues originate in something besides your bullet velocity.

 

[amlevin]

Exactly how slow do you think those 73's are going? I find it hard to believe they're moving anything less than 2700fps. At that speed, or anywhere near it, you MIGHT be dropping 1.5-2.5 inches between 100 and 200 yards. Your scope related issues originate in something besides your bullet velocity.

When I started my loads of 23.7 gr CFE223 were "loafing along" at an average of 2426 avg.

25.0 grains yielded 2609 fps avg

25.2 grains " 2639 fps avg

25.5 grains " 2678 fps avg.

So far nothing over 2700 fps.

Chronograph is a Pact Professional XP with I/R sensors.

According to JBM I'm getting 4" of drop at 200 Y and 15" at 300 Y.

The 25.2 gr load had the least vertical dispersion of the above three loads but without really knowing WHAT the max is I'm having to go by "feel". Other than the false cratering due to Reminton's firing pin hole design I'm experiencing no other pressure signs. Nice smooth, easy, bolt lift, no ejector marks on the case head, and no signs of the bolt face wiping the case head.

The 25.2 grain load is above the published max for a 75 gr and almost as much as the max for a 69 gr.

FWIW, the cases also have nice tight primer pockets and close examination of a spent primer shows no signs of flat edges or "Riveting" (where the edge is pushed into the chamfer of he primer pocket mouth).

Lastly, I know I have a scope issue. This scope has an extremely narrow range of elevation adjustment which I've taken steps to correct.

 

[bigedp51]

amlevin

I would check your throat length, many of the commercial .223 rifles have throats longer than a M16/AR15.

I have a Savage .223 with a 1 in 9 twist and its throat is longer than both my AR15 rifles. I can also load it "hotter" than published load data without any pressure signs.

The SAAMI .223/5.56 interchangeability warning didn't come out until 1979 with the military introduction of M855 amunition and the M16 throat and twist changes.

Check your throat length and see if it was designed by a Remington lawyer.

 

[amlevin]

amlevin

I would check your throat length, many of the commercial .223 rifles have throats longer than a M16/AR15.

I have a Savage .223 with a 1 in 9 twist and its throat is longer than both my AR15 rifles. I can also load it "hotter" than published load data without any pressure signs.

The SAAMI .223/5.56 interchangeability warning didn't come out until 1979 with the military introduction of M855 amunition and the M16 throat and twist changes.

Check your throat length and see if it was designed by a Remington lawyer.

I was rather surprised when I checked how far out I had to go to jam these Berger 73 gr. bullets.

They're at the lands when loaded .080 longer than magazine length (2.260). With my other Remington I can't reach the lands and still have half a caliber in the neck. This rifle may well have been overlooked by the guy with the throating tool 8)

 

[FroggyOne2]

[quote author=amlevin]
I was rather surprised when I checked how far out I had to go to jam these Berger 73 gr. bullets.
[/quote]

That is because they Length Tolerance Bullets, meant to be loaded mag length.

 

[mac86951]

There doesn't seem to be any information readily available for this combination. I've been using the 75 gr data to start my load workup in a Remington SPS-Tactical, 1:9 twist. With the stock bolt which has Remington's trademark large chamfer on the firing pin hole, I get a false cratering from just about minimum load, all the way to where I've currently stopped at 25.2 gr. The edges of the primers (CCI SRP) still have a pronounced radius and there are no other signs of pressure (ejector marks or heavy bolt lift).

I can get great groups at 23.7 gr but the bullet is so slow I just about use up all elevation adjustment in the scope to get out to 200 yards. The faster speeds at 25.2 gr (2620 avg) does better but the groups still have a lot of "vertical".

Does anyone else have experience with this bullet and CFE223? I have 12# of it and really want to use it rather than use up my Varget that I'm saving for my .308 loads.

I haven't gone the route yet of "just adding .2 gr until the bolt starts to stick" yet. The brass is Lapua Match so I might just end up doing that. Still have room to go in the case.

Even though the barrel is only 20" in length I still think I should be closer to 2800 fps in speed.

Anyone?

I'll be late in the reply, but CFE223 is a great powder for some of the heavier bullets. I love my 77gr SMK at 24.2gr loaded to 2.260"

What length barrel?

Great accuracy at 23.7gr is close to where I shoot it, and my 20" barrel gives me 2680fps with 24.0gr. It shoots very well at 600 yards. I use a 20MOA ramp under my scope. You'll probably need to do the same. Don't expect 2800 fps from a 73gr bullet with this powder unless you have a 24" or longer barrel.

What COL are you loading to? Next step is to take 23.7 and find an optimal COL or jump to the lands. Once you find that, then repeat the powder experiment.

-Mac

 

[Dubya]

I'm reading all this about CFE223 powder but what company makes it?
Also, what would be a good starting load using 80 grain bullets in a bolt rifle.

Gary C.