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Berger .264 6.5 Bullets Availability & jackets

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Exactly, when will the awakening occur. Possibly when your state controlled digital currency won't allow an ammunition,components purchase. Or 6 month wait time on any firearm related item? Or worse?
 
I was just sent tracking for backordered Berger 6.5 140 Elite Hunters, maybe the target bullets are next?
 
Anyone shooting 6mm/30cal has it made. Anyone shooting 6.5 looking for good bullets, it at the mercy of Berger.
They haven't produced hardly anything in .264 except Hunting. Furthermore, any custom bullet maker trying to get J4's, simply can't get them.
Not sure I will chamber in 6.5 again...what a hassle! JMO.....
The hunting bullets are just fine for target shooting. The original Berger bullets were made with the thinner jackets just like the “hunter” line is made with. I read (“rifle accuracy facts” by H. Vaughn I believe) that it is easier to make bullet jackets with consistent wall thicknesses if the jackets are thinner rather than thicker. Berger only moved to the thicker jacket (match product line) because over the years people would spin the bullets apart with the thinner jackets when shooting them over 3000 fps in long barrels.

If you are shooting under 3k fps then you may find the hunting bullets shoot as well or better than the match version.

-TH
 
I picked up 2 boxes of 105 Berger Hybrids and 2 boxes of Berger .223 80 gr. VLDs at Scheels in Rochester today......... There was more on the shelf.
 
I was looking for some .30 cal 168 grain for my .308. Mostly shooting 300 yards.

Berger VLD 168 BC = 0.47 $79.99 per 100
Speer Match 168 BC = 0.48 $29.99 per 100
 
scenars are available whereas bergers are not. That's not a coincidence. That's a corporate strategy.

Oh Come On !! Really !!

I've handloaded for 40 years and used Lapua bullets for most of that time, and Bergers for over 20 going back to Walt Berger's day and Bergers being either flat-base match models or VLDs. Lapua match bullets, although popular in my part of the world (UK), have always been readily available, whilst Bergers have been more often than not harder to find as well as much more expensive. In fact 'harder to find' is way understating the position as 'unobtainable' is more accurate in recent years.

The shooter demand for Bergers has grown exponentially, long long before Nammo Oy bought the company. Why? Because 1) it is a 'local' manufacturer and product range in the world's largest - by far - shooting and handloading market; 2) its design and development work has been head and shoulders above everybody else's so it makes low drag / high BC bullets that are easier to 'tune' in most barrels. They're also very well made and most of Berger's competitors have had to implement major QC programmes to catch up.

At one time around 90% of UK 308 Win sling shooters who handload used a single combination of Lapua brass, 155gn Scenar and Viht N140. The Scenar still sees some use but very much less despite its being always available and competitively priced here. Why? Because it's the exact same bullet as twenty odd years ago, albeit even better made than before under the 'L' programme. It's still high-BC, but at the cost of being an aggressive secant ogive / VLD design with all its downsides. Lapua only has a handful of Scenar models in each calibre, and if you look at them, they're a pretty ballistically unexciting bunch with usually a single exception only in each calibre. (The exception that proves the rule is 6.5mm which isn't too surprising for a Scandi supplier with this being the main traditional calibre in the region.) The 155 apart, none of its 308s are better than Sierra MKs of a generation ago, and some are as long in the tooth as Sierras of a generation ago too. Lapua rarely introduces new models and its ranges are very small.

https://www.lapua.com/products/bullets/?product-page=5

Look at the 175gn Scenar and click on it to get its specs. This is one of only two 308 Scenars introduced in the last decade or more and it has the same G7 BC as the antediluvian 175gn SMK. Very well made, shoots well, but how many F/TR competitors use it in 1,000 yard matches?

Look at the size of the range and compare it to Berger's. The 123gn and 200gn FMJs are primarily for 7.62X39 military applications, so that leaves the (ancient) 155, (ancient) 167, 175, (ancient and low-BC) 185, and (recent but very low-BC and long shank) 220gn Scenars as the entire match line-up. There's a bunch of D-series rebated BT FMJBTs that see little demand in the UK but must sell somewhere as they've been in production in one form or other since the 1920s (for sustained-fire machine gun use).

In contrast how many 30-cal bullets has Berger introduced in the last 20 years? No other company has come close to its innovation rate and the company has seen a complete shift of emphasis from VLDs (other than 'Hunting' models) to LRBTs, Hybrids, and now LR-Hybrids. How many winners have there been? The 155.5gn and 185gn LRBTs and 200.20X models are the outstanding 30-cal match designs of a generation, and there is now a large number of Hybrids supplementing them. I'm not going to bother counting them but there must be 20 plus models spread over five product-types.

So, you're telling me that Nammo is reducing supply of Berger's large, very efficient, and modern range of 30s to sell more of these Scenars is the USA - all five models of them. Come on!! Nammo bought Berger because its (Berger's) products are market leaders and make a lot of money. It has wisely left a winning team in place and supplied finance to move to new production facilities out of California to a low-tax, gun owner friendly state and to set up a new national US warehousing and distribution facility elsewhere. (Also, if not more so, to improve imports and US distribution of Lapua, Vihtavuori, and SK ranges which were poor beforehand.)

Lapua doesn't design and introduce the large numbers of new and superb match type bullets that Berger does because it specialises in brass and factory ammunition, including heavy military commitments. With a weak presence in the US in bullets, it could have invested much time, resources, and money in trying to compete head-on with companies like Berger, where it would almost certainly have failed, or even if ultimately successful would have taken 25 years minimum to get a return. Or ... it could buy the clear winning outfit in the market, and help it grow and develop. A much more sensible choice. Without Nammo, I'm pretty sure that complaints about Berger availability would be much, much worse!
 
Berger used to be dedicated to reloaders, that's how they got their reputation. All you need to do is look at what finished ammo they are now producing to get an idea of where the components are going. Unfortunately I think for corporate reasons they have abandoned the people who made their reputation. Good luck!
Did you read @Laurie post ?
 
Yes I did, and I agree they have been a great inovator in bullet design, and manufa cture the best products out there, I have used them in competition for many years, but to think the shortage and year long backorders is due to a sudden huge influx of new competition shooters and or reloaders is something I'm not buying.
Again look at the highly profitable loaded ammo they are selling. Great for stockholders and corporate, but bad for us.
 
Capstone surely isn't marketed to anyone but the civilian market, do you think? Does military need this high-end stuff?If I could get components on demand I would pay double....all mfg states they can't get help, or supply chain costs have increased. CHARGE MORE THEN!
your question show just how little you KNOW vs what you say.
usa companies get government contracts, you see why lapua/namo might want a foot in the door locally.
say a company that makes quality ammo
do some research
yes i would like some custom 6.5 bullets, but i am not a conspiracy monger
 
Yes I did, and I agree they have been a great inovator in bullet design, and manufa cture the best products out there, I have used them in competition for many years, but to think the shortage and year long backorders is due to a sudden huge influx of new competition shooters and or reloaders is something I'm not buying.
Again look at the highly profitable loaded ammo they are selling. Great for stockholders and corporate, but bad for us.
Sooo do you feel that you are being lied to and deceived by the company and they really are making more money selling a box of high dollar loaded ammo in a lgs versus selling large quantities of bullets on line ?

Just curious

Loaded ammo available here, it doesn’t appear there is a huge rush to purchase.
 
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@Laurie I am not arguing with your view. I am just pointing to the obvious. The fact that Capstone manufactures bullets in a certain sequence, in certain volumes cannot be misaligned with nammo's strategy. The loopholes in supply chains play also a role here, but if you look at Nammo's last 4 annual reports you'll see that they invested in distribution centers in the US (Missouri).
 
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@Laurie I am not arguing with your view. I am just pointing to the obvious. The fact that Capstone manufactures bullets in a certain sequence, in certain volumes cannot be misaligned with nammo's strategy.

I'd imagine Nammo's strategy for and its relations with the Berger team is similar to that of most multinationals with highly successful foreign subsidiaries making specialist products primarily for the local market - ie to agree overall brand and growth broad objectives supported by closely defined growth, sales volume, and financial etc budgets. They might be micromanaging Berger from 3,000 miles away for all I know, but if so, they'd be extremely unwise, and this has always struck me as a company staffed and run by people with their feet very firmly planted on the ground.

A VERY MUCH MORE likely explanation is that given by others - ie the company maximises output and minimises customer dissatisfaction in a time when it can no way come anywhere close to meeting overall demand for its products by making very long production runs of its best sellers thereby maximising machine productive time, overall output, and reducing the risks of wastage and sub standard quality from constantly switching products and tools. Berger (and all other US bullet companies) did this during the last great handloading supplies shortage in the Obama period. In fact many reduced the number of lines they produced by three quarters or more for a period of years

Berger Bullets has been trying to get into lucrative (I wonder ?? ) government specialist rifle ammo markets for as long as I can remember and it predates Nammo ownership. Hence the development of the OTM tactical series with 0.224, 0.264, 0.308 and 0.338" products and at one stage associated ammunition. AFAIK, they've not been successful to date in getting say the M118LR contract away from Federal and Sierra. Instead, they've moved into the specialist civilian ammo market - as has Sierra and of course Hornady which has been making this type as well as many others for decades. That would suggest to me that there are very sound commercial / financial reasons for this move as all the main players are doing it these days. Nammo may or may not have helped and/or encouraged Berger in this move, but note that far from helping other bits of the Nammo group, this initiative risks sacrificing its own Lapua division US ammunition sales. That suggests a very high degree of group level devolvement from divisional strategies and letting those divisions get on with the job for best results.
 
Right on, Laurie. Unfortunately, when consumers can't get product anytime they choose, they invent all sorts of reasons, most of them dastardly. Corporate greed is a favorite, along with "they don't care about us" (as if this is a sound economic reason), they don't know what they are doing, or the manufacturer is holding down supply to run the price up (might work if they had a monopoly), and assorted other dreamed up reasons. Another good one is "the government is buying it all up" -- recently I had a man tell me that the reason he could not find .32 S&W long ammo was the Army was buying it all. I didn't realize the Army was using .32 cal. revolvers these days, but guess I'm not in the loop. All comes from consumers frustrated because the supply line isn't in it's normal mode to which we've become accustomed -- where if we want something, it's readily available and we just purchase it. I think it will be awhile yet.
 
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