BERGER 250 HYBRID TACTICAL TEST RESULTS

[GNERGY]

I applied for and received 2 boxes of Bergers 250gr Hybrid OTM Tactical for testing and here are my results. I like them.
This pic should keep you interseted. The final tests were shot at 560 yds. the longest distance I can shoot at my range. This group was shot at that distance with 91.5grs of IMR 7828SSC at 3160 fps. It was sighter group for testing to get on target.

My rifle
Rem 700 with a 30 inch Broughton tube 1:9.3 twist with a Muscle brake chambered and installed by Jim See @ Centershotrifles.
Canjar set trigger
EGW 20 moa base with 4 Burris Signiture Z rings Holding a Burris 8x-32x-50 Black Diamond
Bobby Hart LRT stock Devcon bedded by ME.
Bipod custom made by myself.

I decided to use powders that I already have that I used with the 225 gr Barnes TTSX testing. I don't know if this matters but Broughton says my barrel bore was .3385 so I have been using a little faster burning powders to slug up the bore ( so to speak )
The bullets have a G7 BC of .349 and a G1 BC of .682 I weighed them and out of 100
72 weighed 249.9grs
10 weighed 249.8grs
15 weighed 249.7grs
3 weighed 249.6grs
I didn't go thru the trouble of measuring them, length or ogive, but I did notice the tip ( or hollow point ) on some of them was at an angle, not flat, but that didn't seam to matter in my tests. I have a friend that got a tool to make the tip of bullets flat or uniform on his 6.5mm Berger VLD's and did some tests and at 500 yds it didn't make any difference. ( and that gun would shoot 5/8th's inch groups at 500 yds all day long)
Here is a pic of the bullets I have shot before
250 Nosler AB 250 Berger OTM 225 Barnes TTSX

More on next post.
Tarey

 

[GNERGY]

I forgot to mention this but my rifle is a 338 Rem Ultra Mag.
I am using once fired brass that I bought new. It has been prepped and annealed. I use a Lyman full length die that I honed the neck area to give me .003 neck tension. I use a Hornady new dimension seater die that has the sleeve inside that holds the bullet straight in line with the neck. I made another sleeve and honed it to just let the bullet fit to get tighter tollerances while seating the bullets in my cases to keep the runout at a minimum. I weigh every charge.
I started out with IMR 7828SSC
Fed 215 Mag primers
I loaded from 87gr in 1/2 grain increments to 90 gr. seated .050 off the lands.
Testing was done at 300 yds. The 90 gr produced a 1.034 3 shot group at 3020 fps.
I tried some more at .015 and .070 off the lands with the 90 grs and the .070 produced a group just under an inch at 300 yds. I loaded some more up with
90.5 91 and 91.5 grs and the 91.5 gave a little more velocity and grouped as well 3 shots at 1 inch at 300 at 3160 fps.

I also tried H 4831SC
Fed 215 Mag primers
I loaded in 1/2 grain increments from 87.5 to 90.5 gr seated .070 off the lands.
The 90.5 grouped the best despite the wind and mirage that day with 3 in 1 1/4 inch at 300 yds at 3060 fps. I know I can still go higher with the 4831 but with the amount of bullets I was given, my load development was limited if I was goint to stretch them out to 500 Meters.

I loaded up 15 with 91.5 grs. IMR 7828SSC and I loaded 10 up with 90.5 grs. H4831SC for my testing at 500 Meters ( 560 yards at my range )
I used my go to load of 92 grs. of H 4831SC with a Barnes 225 gr TTSX at 3217 fps to get on target at 500 despite 3.5 to 6 mph winds.

I had to come up 6 MOA on my scope ( 48 1/8th clicks ) from my 300 yard setting to get on at 560 yds.
I shot three 3 shot groups with thw IMR 7828 SSC first letting the barrel cool down to outside temps between shots. Temps started out at 62* and wind was from right to left from 3.5 to 6 mph. These first 2 groups would of been really small if the wind didn't play havock with my testing.

I really like how these bullets show very little verticle variation.
I then shot the ones loaded with H 4831SC. The wind had changed directions and the mirage was moving my 3 inch orange dot around about 3 inches. The temps were at 70* and the wind was from left to right now. I tried to shoot when the wind was blowing the mirage away so I could get a more accurate ainimg point. I even cut the power down on the Burris to 24x.
This was the last group of the day and was the best with this powder.

I am going to do some more testing with these bullets when they come out in April. I really like how they shot and my barrel clean up was really easy. I didn't clean it till after the first 70 rounds and after just a couple patches of Bore Tech eliminator the patches came out clean. I even soaked it again and let it sit and the patch had hardly any green on it. I hope to try these on elk if I get drawn ( just put in for a cow tag here in Az )I would like to try some 4350 and go a little higher with the H 4831SC.
I would like to thank Michelle Gallagher from Berger for giving me this opportunity to test these bullets. I like the short bearing surface compared to some of the other 338 cal. bullets that will let these be shot at higher velocities and the accuracy is there. I can't wait to get some more.
PS: I an going to try some of the 168gr 308 dia. Hybrids in my 308 Win.
Hey guys, keep your eyes posted because Berger is going to be doing some more testing when they come out with the hunting version of these and you could be one of those testers.
Tarey

 

[Nomad47]

You can shoot 560 yards at Usery?!?

 

[Ironworker]

An hour time difference ? Are you in ID or MO ?

 

[GNERGY]

Nomad47
They have a high power range that goes out to 500 meters, my rangefinder says 560 yds. You have to be high power qualified to shoot at that range or go with somebody that is as a guest. To get high power qualified you have to compete in 3 matches either F class or lever action or centerfire pistol silhouette and you get to shoot on the high power range where you are your own rangemaster, because it isn't supervised. It is usually only available during the week because they have matches there on the weekend. I go a couple times a week, usually first thing in the morning before it gets too hot. If you want to go sometime shoot me a PM and I can meet up with you.
Tarey

 

[Nomad47]

I'll do that, Tarey - when I get back to AZ. I'm currently in Kinston, NC for a month, then Ohio for 4 to 5 months, then AZ for the winter months.
I lived in Gilbert 5 years ago and occasionally went to Usery. Liked the concrete benches but didn't care for being put next to a guy flinging brass from an AR, or being glared at for taking too long to set up my chronograph, etc. So I ended up going out on BLM land somewhere.

 

[CADDIE5]

Like Tarey, I was chosen to test the Berger 338 OTM hybrid bullets. The rifle I used was my 338 win mag elk rifle-- a Mauser 98 action, 26" Mcgowen barrel with 4 magnaported slots, in a McMillan fiberglass stock that is glass and pillar bedded. Scope is a Leupold 4.5x14x50mm scope with a Bulzeye pro 3.5 eyepiece.
I will present my results in an excel spreadsheet. Shot the rifle with a 100yd zero at 300yds so that I would not shoot my chrony. Used 3 target frames- one for each powder used-just shifted bulls bag to line up on each target. My son, Steve jr., recorded velocity, conditions, and shot pattern-- this way my only job was to shoot and call my shots. Saw the target results after we pulled down targets to go home. Therefore the ladder test is a drop POI. Shooter is firing uphill to targets because of pits. I let barrel cool for 5 minutes after each 5 shot string. Didn't clean barrel during testing. Did not adjust for wind changes. Bullet's vertical is fantastic when velocity similar. Loads are conservative because I had no experience loading 250gr match hybrids. All rounds single loaded and fired--box mag length is 3.34" --rounds seated for coal of 3.64" which is 0.050" off the lands. Ammo loaded on Forster press, RCBS sm. base die, Forster ultraseating die. Used CCI 250M primers. New 338 win Winchester brass. Primer holes done with KM tool and seated with KM tool with dial indicator. Forster seating die caused tip to flatten ever so slightly-- did not affect accuracy. ISRA range is in Illinois. I liked these bullets and would use for hunting at longer range shots if a close shot did not present itself on elk, moose, etc. Thanks Berger and Michelle Gallagher for the opportunity to test these bullets. The short bearing surface makes tuning easy and can push loads more than Nosler 210 gr partition or Barnes 225 gr tsx or ttsx bullets.

 

[GNERGY]

I see you experienced the consistant verticle point of impact these bullets have. I liked that and think it will make for very accurate long range bullet placement. I wish I had some more so I could do a little more load development. I just liked shootin them. I know I could get them to shoot an inch at 500.
Tarey

 

[Michelle Gallagher]

Here's another test result:

Firstly, thanks for your kind consideration in helping customers like me run products through even more real world scenarios- I look forward to seeing others' results soon. Secondly, you should be proud of this new 250gr .338 option- it is exactly what my rifle has been asking for! Thirdly, when can we buy more of these?- I'm out and NEED them!!

These worked so well that I will switch entirely to these in my .338 Edge. I have been running tests after tests of different loads/bullets/primers/lengths etc. etc. to get something better than acceptable in my .338 Edge- It took 9 rounds of a ladder test with H1000 and one seating depth with these 250 OTM's to find a sub half moa group with good speeds! The BC these bullets offer with the speeds I am able to get already will really help my ELR endeavors!

Previously my rifle liked the 300gr hybrid and 92.0 gr of H1000(2850+/-fps, es/sd in single digits usually), 95.5gr H1000 (3000fps+/-) and same distance off the lands (.020") and these 250's just flat out rock n roll.

I would really be curious to see what others running the .338 Edge were seeing for speeds/loads with these. My CED chrono wouldn't pick up the last dozen or so bullets loaded on top of Retumbo as the clouds were rolling in and the sun was dropping behind the mountains quickly...I was just starting to see pressure signs ( medium-flattened primer edges only) at 98.0gr of Retumbo...and there must be a node near there but will need to see what the speeds and ES/SD are doing. COAL for loads seemed to be best around 4.015" which is .020" off the lands for me. When i am able to get more, I will want to try more at 3.7xx"-ish length with a different primer combo(I used CCI 250's), the magazine length rounds I tried had much greater ES/SD numbers and the groups opened up horizontally as well.

At my usual outdoor range, I like to run loads at 550ys and 1020yds for accuracy and consistency....I rarely if ever do anything at less than 550yds there with the 338. The range altitude is at 8200ish feet- so it is a bit like cheating- but I'll take it-temp swings and weather changes are faster too. Using the G7 of .380 matches pretty well with what I was able to produce- 5.7mil come-up for 1020y and 2.4mil for 550yds. Historically, the Berger 300gr have taken 22.1moa/8.2moa on the same pieces of steel. Wind calls seem to be within .1mil of my same calls with the 300gr hybrid at these ranges. (which is easily within my ability as a rifle driver-wind reader) My spots that go past a mile are too snowy/muddy to get to just now-but I am confident these 250's will be the ticket to upping my percentage of hits at 1200yds -2000yds+ especially when I can find a good 3100+fps load.

 

[Michelle Gallagher]

From another tester:

On the first target, I loaded them long. My best target with the TGR-42 was group A. All targets were shot at 200 yards. Group A was .006 jump, but would not fit in the magazine. Looks like this group was .277 CTC

On the second target, I loaded more up with them just able to fit in the magazine. Not too good of groups to start. starting depth was .112 jump. Best group was around a .9 CTC

On the third target, the seating depth is starting to get tuned. all groups are consistant in size... about .660 CTC. The jump was .121 .124 .127

I was able to shoot a 12 shot group at 1k at Deep Creek over the weekend with the new 250 hybrids out of my TRG-42. It was Saturday afternoon and there was switching wind and mirage. All i had time to shoot was (3) groups of 4 shots each. The seating depth was .120 .123 and .126 Jump. That is the only way to get them in the Magazine. If you take the 3 groups and lay them on top of each other, It is about a 7.5" group. It would have been about a 6" group, but i had one flyer go a little high on me. All in all I would say they are very consistant being shot out of a gun that doesnt track very well off the rest.

 

[Michelle Gallagher]

Another test result:

Weather this week in SW Wisconsin has been very windy. I'm shooting a Dakota Arms 338 Lapua Mag that I've had for nine years. It already has 1200 rounds down the tube and still shoots 1/2 MOA. I have started with Reloader 22 at 85 grains and worked up in half grain increments to 89 grains. I'm am shooting with an OAL of 3.820 (measured from ogive of PTG bullet comparator). This put my 15 thousands into the lands at this point, similar to where I shoot other Berger bullets in my smaller caliber rifles. Federal 215 Match primers and 3rd firing on Lapua brass that I recently annealed.

I started at 100 yards with previously loaded 300 grain Sierras as a base to start from. I was only able to fire three loads today due to time constraints with darkness. The weather is 38 degrees, 30.48 barometric pressure, 28% humidity, altitude 760 feet, and no wind. The distance was 300 yards. I started with RL 22 at 85.0 grains and followed in 1/2 grain increments to 86.5. The results so far have been a little discouraging with groups size of 4.620",4.375", and 3.758"'s respectively. Tomorrow the weather will hopefully hold. I have several more test loads of RE 22 and then plan to switch over to H1000. I plan on moving back to 100 yards for group development. Hopefully I will find a reasonable load from which I can then vary OAL's to improve on accuracy. I don't plan on switching primers at this point. From previous experience with my rifle I find it likes to loaded "hot".

(Day 2)
Beautiful day for shooting. 65 degrees. Less than 5mph wind.
Reloaded 86.5 grains Reloader 22 Federal 215 M Primer and 250gr Berger in
338 Lapua Magnum.

Results were better that previously but still large at best. All tests were based on three shot groups at 100 yards.
I varied the final group size into two groups. Into the lands and jumping.
Results were as follows:

Jump to lands:
0.005 - 1.305 MOA
0.010 - 1.240 MOA
0.015 - 1.198 MOA Second best load of all loaded rounds.
0.025 - 1.885 MOA
0.035 - 1.495 MOA
0.045 - 1.890 MOA

Into the lands:
0.020 - 3.385 MOA
0.030 - 1.210 MOA
0.045 - 1.162 MOA Which was best group tested of all loaded rounds.

Interested to see the best two groups were 0.045 into lands and the second was 0.015 jump into the lands.
I have tried other weight bullets in this particular rifle over the past nine years from 200 to 300 grains. The results with 250 grain Bergers were on par with others such as Nosler, Sierra, and Barnes. I believe that this particular rifle has a preference for 300 grain bullets(RL 22 86.2gr). I don't believe the 1x10 twist is the factor. The barrel is a Lothar-Walther. I will most likely purchase a box of your 300gr Hybrids down the road and see how they shoot.

 

[liltank]

Like Tarey, I was chosen to test the Berger 338 OTM hybrid bullets. The rifle I used was my 338 win mag elk rifle-- a Mauser 98 action, 26" Mcgowen barrel with 4 magnaported slots, in a McMillan fiberglass stock that is glass and pillar bedded. Scope is a Leupold 4.5x14x50mm scope with a Bulzeye pro 3.5 eyepiece.
I will present my results in an excel spreadsheet. Shot the rifle with a 100yd zero at 300yds so that I would not shoot my chrony. Used 3 target frames- one for each powder used-just shifted bulls bag to line up on each target. My son, Steve jr., recorded velocity, conditions, and shot pattern-- this way my only job was to shoot and call my shots. Saw the target results after we pulled down targets to go home. Therefore the ladder test is a drop POI. Shooter is firing uphill to targets because of pits. I let barrel cool for 5 minutes after each 5 shot string. Didn't clean barrel during testing. Did not adjust for wind changes. Bullet's vertical is fantastic when velocity similar. Loads are conservative because I had no experience loading 250gr match hybrids. All rounds single loaded and fired--box mag length is 3.34" --rounds seated for coal of 3.64" which is 0.050" off the lands. Ammo loaded on Forster press, RCBS sm. base die, Forster ultraseating die. Used CCI 250M primers. New 338 win Winchester brass. Primer holes done with KM tool and seated with KM tool with dial indicator. Forster seating die caused tip to flatten ever so slightly-- did not affect accuracy. ISRA range is in Illinois. I liked these bullets and would use for hunting at longer range shots if a close shot did not present itself on elk, moose, etc. Thanks Berger and Michelle Gallagher for the opportunity to test these bullets. The short bearing surface makes tuning easy and can push loads more than Nosler 210 gr partition or Barnes 225 gr tsx or ttsx bullets.

I'm interested in your load data and velocity. I often wondered how a 338WM would do with a longer barrel and the powders that are out today. Could you please give us some data. Also I don't see any info on group size?

Thanks,
Tank

 

[GNERGY]

Tank, you must of missed it.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/berger-338-otm-hybrid-bullets-test-results-338-win-mag-88836/

Tarey

 

[liltank]

Tank, you must of missed it.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/berger-338-otm-hybrid-bullets-test-results-338-win-mag-88836/

Tarey

Thanks Tarey. I did miss it. ;D

 

[CADDIE5]

Included in my report just above the pics is: berger hybrid 338 250gr TEST RESULTS.xls

This an excel spreadsheet of my data. If you don't have microsoft excel on your computer to open this file then go to the link that Tarey showed for our results of the bullet test. On longrange hunting forum I posted the results as a scanned jpeg of my data.

I liked these bullets so much that they are the bullets I chose for completing the test.

Thanks again to Berger bullets, Michelle, Melesia, and Bryan for all of your help. Have a Happy and blessed Easter. Steve Z.

 

[Michelle Gallagher]

Thanks again to everyone for helping us test this bullet! We reviewed the test results, and are excited to announce the 338 cal 250gr Hybrid OTM Tactical bullet as the latest addition to the Berger line! These bullets are now in production and available for order through your local reseller. Call us at 714-447-5422 for more information.

Warm Regards,
Michelle Gallagher
Berger Bullets

 

[liltank]

Good to hear!