Berger 200.20x with 30-06 Sprg and 1 in 8 twist?

[logandiana]

I finished building a rifle this past winter with the plan of it being an informal 1000 yard target rifle (I don't compete). The barrel is a 30" heavy palma Bartlein 5R chambered in 30-06. I chose 30-06 because I already have 5 other rifles in that chambering, I have all the brass, dies, etc. and it's just what made sense.
The twist rate of the barrel is 1 in 8 inches. I chose this because I had the intention of using the long heavy bullets like the new 230 SMK or 230 Bergers. My first trip to the range I load up 10 of each: 230 SMK, 230 Berger, 210 Nosler Accubond, 200 Berger Hybrid, and 200 SMK (the newer version).
To be consistent I loaded all with 50gn of H4350. The 230 both averaged right around 2490fps, the 210 at 2547fps, and the 200s at 2557fps. As far as groups at 100 yards, the 200s were better than I expected and grouped the best with the 200 hybrid Bergers having a slight edge over the 200SMK. The Nosler Accubond 210 was next, and both of the 230 didn't meet expectations at all. The 230SMK did group better than the 230 Berger though.
Since these loads were all made from those 'find your load' sample packs or from small handfuls borrowed from other shooters, I can't load more until I buy more. Seeing that the rifle seems to prefer 200 grain bullets in my initial testing, my plan is to stick with this weight for the meantime at least.
I've looked at lots of reviews and opinions of the Berger 200 hybrids, but then I saw the buzz about the Berger 200.20x. It seems like the logical choice except for most responses I've seen are using a 308 with a 1 in 10 twist rather than a 30-06 with the 1 in 8 twist that my rifle has.
Furthermore I wonder if I am using the right powder. I chose H4350 because that's what I am seeing accuracy with in my other cartridges, that and I have a lot of it. I see that Varget is also popular with the 200.20x.
What advice would you give on getting the most accuracy using the 200.20x from a 1 in 8 twist barrel? Or should I go in a different direction? I feel like I should have found a better starting point, before I started!

Here's a pic of the rifle in question (I have scope mounting currently until I can get my load figured out)

 

[Ned Ludd]

I have recently been loading the 200.20Xs for an '03 Springfield. I also tested 168s, 185s, and the 200.20Xs just seem to work better. This rifle was a new acquisition last fall that I purchased for shooting the CMP Vintage Sniper Rifle matches.

Doing a little research, I found that almost no one is using bullets that heavy out of an '03 in these kind of matches, so I had to start almost from scratch. I ultimately chose H4831sc as the powder, which is even a bit slower than H4350, which probably would have been my second choice. Popular loads for the .30-06 use what I consider to be pretty fast powders for a case of that size. The key to that is that they're usually using relatively light bullets, for which those powders clearly work.

I like to use Quickload in such situations as a predictive tool. According to QL, H4831sc was predicted to generate velocities in tuned loads within about 20 fps of any of the other faster and more commonly-used powders for the .30-06, but at slightly lower pressure, which has turned out to be the case in my hands. H4350 wasn't too different from the predictions with H4831sc; it was predicted to give about 20 fps more velocity in a tuned load and slightly higher pressure. I can't imagine why H4350 wouldn't work well in your situation. Faster burning powders such as IMR4064, Varget, and IMR4895 have been mainstays for .30-06 shooters for a long time, but I use those powders in a .308 Win case with 168 to 200 gr bullets, and I personally think they're way too fast-burning for 200 gr bullet in a case such as the .30-06 that has approximately 25% greater capacity, especially in a situation such as yours with a long 30" barrel.

The only consideration I see with your setup might be the 8-twist barrel, which is much faster than you need for the 200.20X (one of my F-TR rifles out of which I shoot the 200.20Xs has a 30" 11-twist barrel). Using an excessively fast twist rate can also generate excessive torque and possibly create gun-handling issues. However, I know shooters that have used the 200.20Xs out of 9-twist barrels and they worked just fine. I have shot 200 gr copper monolithics out of an 8-twist barrel .308 Win and the gun handling was not noticeably different to me, so I think it'll be fine. I'd imagine you will have your work cut out anyhow shooting a 200 gr .30 cal bullet from an unsupported rifle.

 

[Michael C]

Interesting thread... wow! a 200g bullet in a 200 yard Vintage match seems like overkill. Fun but ouch! I would not want to shoot that offhand in a Springfield, or in a rapid fire sting. Ned, you are the man! As a palma shooter, I have kind of always wanted a 3006 palma rifle, but, it is not legal so no use in it.

 

[logandiana]

Ned , I do have some H4831sc that I use for my 6.5 swede, so I could try that. Also I am not 100% set on the 200.20x either. I just saw that they are popular and since my tightest group was with the 200 grain hybrids I figured that sticking around the 200 grain weight might be ideal. I wondered though if there may be a better solution to try the 230 SMK again since I did only try with that one load. The other possibility may be to look into to the 220 Lapua ScenarL or the older 220 SMK that has the more traditional shape. In my 6.5 Swede I must have tried 10 different bullets and the last one to try was the Hornady ELD 120 and it was the most accurate by far.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Interesting thread... wow! a 200g bullet in a 200 yard Vintage match seems like overkill. Fun but ouch! I would not want to shoot that offhand in a Springfield, or in a rapid fire sting. Ned, you are the man! As a palma shooter, I have kind of always wanted a 3006 palma rifle, but, it is not legal so no use in it.

The Vintage Sniper matches are fired at 300 and 600 yd. I've spoken with a few competitors that actually have different loads for each distance, using a much lighter bullet at 300 yd. However, even their heavier bullet loads seem to be limited to ~168 gr bullets or less. At 600 yd, the difference in wind deflection between those bullets and the 200.20Xs is substantial, even though it's rather small at 300 yd. If I thought there was a substantial difference in felt recoil and therefore gun handling, I might have chosen otherwise. But when I tested 168 Hybrids, 185 Juggernauts, and the 200.20X bullet, the 200.20X was also the clear winner in terms of precision. For that reason, I think it's the best choice in my hands regardless of the distance. Precision always decreases with distance, it never improves. So my thought has always been if I'm not happy with the precision of a given load at 100 or 300 yd, it isn't going to get any better at 600 yd. Along the same line, if I'm satisfied with the precision at 600 yd, it's likely to be equal or even better at 300 yd.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Ned , I do have some H4831sc that I use for my 6.5 swede, so I could try that. Also I am not 100% set on the 200.20x either. I just saw that they are popular and since my tightest group was with the 200 grain hybrids I figured that sticking around the 200 grain weight might be ideal. I wondered though if there may be a better solution to try the 230 SMK again since I did only try with that one load. The other possibility may be to look into to the 220 Lapua ScenarL or the older 220 SMK that has the more traditional shape. In my 6.5 Swede I must have tried 10 different bullets and the last one to try was the Hornady ELD 120 and it was the most accurate by far.

The 200.20X bullet is an outstanding design, relatively easy to tune, and it has a very high BC. Although more recent .30 cal offerings such as Berger's 208 Hybrid and 220 Hybrid, as well as the well-established 215 and 230 Hybrids, offer equal or better BC, they also will generate more felt recoil and require even more precise gun handling, especially in an unsupported shooting format. Usually the best approach in this situation is to try a few different combinations and let the targets tell you which is the better choice.

 

[logandiana]

The 200.20X bullet is an outstanding design, relatively easy to tune, and it has a very high BC. Although more recent .30 cal offerings such as Berger's 208 Hybrid and 220 Hybrid, as well as the well-established 215 and 230 Hybrids, offer equal or better BC, they also will generate more felt recoil and require even more precise gun handling, especially in an unsupported shooting format. Usually the best approach in this situation is to try a few different combinations and let the targets tell you which is the better choice.

Alright I'll start out with the 200.20x, load up a few in H4350, H4831SC, Varget, possibly RL19 and we'll see what happens.

 

[dcali]

With that rifle, I'd look at the Berger 208s and 215s. That 8 is WAY overkill for a 200.20X, and the case capacity is higher than a .308, which seems to have settled in around 200gr as an optimal projectile weight for long barrel, long range work.

But... the shorter bullets are going to tend to shoot better than the long ones but with a substantial cost in that they'll be worse in the wind. That's just physics. That 8 twist is not helping accuracy, but you might be able to launch the 208s or 215s fast enough to make up for it. (In my opinion, the new 208 is more of an alternative to the 215 than to the 200s - I'd try the 208 first, as it looks like a well designed bullet, with eh caveat that they're new and we don't have a lot of feedback from shooters on them yet.)

If you decide that a 200 grain bullet is what you want to shoot, I'd highly recommend going to an 11 twist on your next barrel.

 

[Michael C]

Ned that totally makes sense to me. For some reason I thought you were talking about shooting the National Match course they shoot with vintage rifles at 200 yards, standing, rapid prone, and slow prone with a sling.