Berger 185 BT LR - Starting & Max Load?
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Keith Glasscock
Gold $$ Contributor
Tony,
What kind of velocity are you seeing with that load? Just curious...
What kind of velocity are you seeing with that load? Just curious...
I haven't tried the 185 with VarGet / H4895 - these bullets are so relatively expensive over here in the UK, and so difficult to get hold of more often than not, that I've stuck to only using them over my match load of Viht N550 that gives 2,800 fps give or take a bit depending on ambient temperatures.
I can say that it's slightly lighter sister, the 175gn BTLR, performs very well indeed over H4895. That's in Lapua standard brass, F210M primer, and in a minimum SAAMI chamber throated for the 185 BTLR in a 30" Broughton 1-10". 43.8gn H4895 produced the sweet spot with this combination, sub quarter-MOA 100yd groups and 2,806 fps MV with an SD of 6 fps. Every charge weight from 42.2gn up to 44gn did half-MOA or better in a range of 0.4 / 0.3 / 0.2gn steps.
This gives a very nice shorter range load with a little less recoil than the 185 - I understand from German Salazar that some older US rules Palma compedtitors like this bullet as they find it more manageable than the 185 shooting off their elbows.
I can say that it's slightly lighter sister, the 175gn BTLR, performs very well indeed over H4895. That's in Lapua standard brass, F210M primer, and in a minimum SAAMI chamber throated for the 185 BTLR in a 30" Broughton 1-10". 43.8gn H4895 produced the sweet spot with this combination, sub quarter-MOA 100yd groups and 2,806 fps MV with an SD of 6 fps. Every charge weight from 42.2gn up to 44gn did half-MOA or better in a range of 0.4 / 0.3 / 0.2gn steps.
This gives a very nice shorter range load with a little less recoil than the 185 - I understand from German Salazar that some older US rules Palma compedtitors like this bullet as they find it more manageable than the 185 shooting off their elbows.
Busdriver said:
It is a well tuned load at 2600 fps from a 26 inch Broughton 5C 1:12. It is fitted to my Nesika 284 Shehane gun and is an absolute hammer at that speed. I have had it up to 2700 fps but that is not were it wants to shoot and I didn't want to push the brass any harder. I've go some Lapua small primer pocket brass and I may try leaning on that stuff a little harder.
Keith Glasscock
Gold $$ Contributor
Thanks Tony.
The 185 hybrid wasn't where it wanted to be at 2700. I still have a few of them and thought I'd try slowing them down. Varget really doesn't seem to like reduced charges, so I'll give H4895 a try (it hangs around my place too).
Interpolating Hodgdon's data gives me a starting charge of 39.5 grains.
The 185 hybrid wasn't where it wanted to be at 2700. I still have a few of them and thought I'd try slowing them down. Varget really doesn't seem to like reduced charges, so I'll give H4895 a try (it hangs around my place too).
Interpolating Hodgdon's data gives me a starting charge of 39.5 grains.
just curious if anyone has had good luck with n 150 dont see mush of this powder and the 185s?? :
bulldog284 said:just curious if anyone has had good luck with n 150 dont see mush of this powder and the 185s?? :
Yes. several national league F/TR competitors use N150 with this bullet in the UK, invariably in Lapua brass. You can get the bullet out at around 2,800 fps from a 30" barrel. We don't have your high summer temperatures though, so can probably use heavier loads safely.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
I have been sticking with Varget for it's temperature stability. I've seen matched here (Oak Ridge) in the summer where is was 75 for the first relay of the day and pushing high 90s by the last one (talk about a great lesson in Density Altitude). What else it out there that I can load close to max pressures and not worry about having something go KABOOM! in the afternoon match?
Caddies,
no that was the Hodgdon version alright. I do have some IMR-4895 but only use it occasionally as Hodgdon is much more widely stocked than IMR here in the UK.
Maximum quoted loads apply to the SAAMI specification test barrel the powder company uses and may or may not apply to others. It's the old story of start low and work up in small and reducing steps. In my rifle and barrel (Broughton 1-10"), there were no pressure signs at 44gn and the MVs didn't suggest pressures would be unduly high either. I always run my intended development charges through QuickLOAD too and it mustn't have suggested 44gn would have produced pressures higher than the SAAMI PMax or I wouldn't have used it.
Thanks for the kind words,
Laurie
no that was the Hodgdon version alright. I do have some IMR-4895 but only use it occasionally as Hodgdon is much more widely stocked than IMR here in the UK.
Maximum quoted loads apply to the SAAMI specification test barrel the powder company uses and may or may not apply to others. It's the old story of start low and work up in small and reducing steps. In my rifle and barrel (Broughton 1-10"), there were no pressure signs at 44gn and the MVs didn't suggest pressures would be unduly high either. I always run my intended development charges through QuickLOAD too and it mustn't have suggested 44gn would have produced pressures higher than the SAAMI PMax or I wouldn't have used it.
Thanks for the kind words,
Laurie
A little late to the party, but I think I can contribute something. I loaded some up for my brother's Remington 5R.
Lapua brass
Wolf primers
Seated at ~2.830" COL (max. for internal box magazine) (Max COL to lands is crazy at about 3.0")
Varget
We worked up to about 43.6 grains, where we would see light ejector marks. Best accuracy with decent velocity was 43.0 grains. We saw about 2575 fps average here, about mach 1.18 @ 1000 yards at our altitude. We're trying the 175 grain LRBT next, hoping for a bit better results with more case capacity (the 185 is really far in there at mag length, 43 was compressed). We're also changing the box mag for a CDI DBM for accuracy international mags also, for more COL.
Lapua brass
Wolf primers
Seated at ~2.830" COL (max. for internal box magazine) (Max COL to lands is crazy at about 3.0")
Varget
We worked up to about 43.6 grains, where we would see light ejector marks. Best accuracy with decent velocity was 43.0 grains. We saw about 2575 fps average here, about mach 1.18 @ 1000 yards at our altitude. We're trying the 175 grain LRBT next, hoping for a bit better results with more case capacity (the 185 is really far in there at mag length, 43 was compressed). We're also changing the box mag for a CDI DBM for accuracy international mags also, for more COL.
As Laurie mentioned, I use the 175 quite a bit as do others in my area. Although most use Varget, I use H4895 and am satisfied with the results.
I tried a few 185's recently, also with H4895 for lack of anything else in the right burn range. I think that powder is a bit too fast for the 185, though. I'll try them again at some point, but most likely with IMR 4320 which is a touch slower and a bit more dense.
I tried a few 185's recently, also with H4895 for lack of anything else in the right burn range. I think that powder is a bit too fast for the 185, though. I'll try them again at some point, but most likely with IMR 4320 which is a touch slower and a bit more dense.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
bricktop said:
The 185s really are logs. I don't think they are intended for loading to mag length in a 308, you lose too much case capacity. I can load 175SMKs at mag length over 44.5 varget and not be compressed, and if you can't get the 185s to w/i about 100FPS of the 175SMK you really don't gain anything and you are spending nearly 2x for the bullets.
I'm going to load up enough of both to go to the range and do side by side shooting comparisons of the 155palma [2156], the Berger 185s and the 175 SMKs and see if the bergers are really worth the $$ and see if I gain anything in other than elevation with the 155s. If the 185s aren't gaining me an inch or more in windage it's really not worth it for the cost increase. Maybe for regional or state matches but for everything else I'll shoot the 175s.
XTR,
Pick up a box of the Berger 175 Tactical OTM bullets and test against the others. I think you'll be surprised. The 175 OTM's blew away the Sierra 175's in every test I ran regardless of the yardage.
The 185 LR work better than the 185 Hybrids seated to mag length. The hybrids long nose dosen't help matters when trying to seat mag length.
Danny
Pick up a box of the Berger 175 Tactical OTM bullets and test against the others. I think you'll be surprised. The 175 OTM's blew away the Sierra 175's in every test I ran regardless of the yardage.
The 185 LR work better than the 185 Hybrids seated to mag length. The hybrids long nose dosen't help matters when trying to seat mag length.
Danny
The possible advantage is the ability to get enough of it in the case to reach SAAMI maximum pressure. In some situations, you run out of case capacity with 4064 before you reach that pressure level.
My usual load development method is to work up to SAAMI maximum with instrumentation, then work down while searching for accuracy.
My usual load development method is to work up to SAAMI maximum with instrumentation, then work down while searching for accuracy.
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